Wifi Range Question & 10Gbit Fibre Question

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SavageNZL

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#296405 14-Jun-2022 21:19

Hi all,

Two Questions, One relating to Wifi AP, one relating to 10Gbit Home Network.

1: How do you see on the box which WiFi AP has the best transmission and receiving capability?
We have a asus ac87u and would like a Wireless AP or replacement router to reach from the house to the Shed which is 100m away.
It works fine in the paddock (2 bars) but in the shed which is a little closer but has timber walls it drops in and out of no connection / 1 bar.
I was thinking of a new router but I believe Wifi 6 would have shorter range? if going by wifi 5 is anything to go by. I was looking at other good 2.4g router/wap combo, or just a add on WAP like a unify LR (But I would have to get a POE adaptor? and I can't tell if the signal will be better than the ac87u or if there is some budget friendly directional item).

Question 2:
Looking at upgrading to 10gbit fibre at another property, the Nokia ONT 110 has a RJ45 output not a SFP+, The Asus 8 legged horror show has RJ45 for $1000 is not appealing, but there doesn't seem to be anything else to provide 10gbit capability in RJ45 format that's not multiple thousands. I was looking at a Dream machine but it only has 2 SFP+ ports, Does anyone have a Router+WAP Suggestion, I ideally want to be able to use the fully 10gbit on a dedicated Ethernet line to one machine as well as a WAP to provide solid wifi throughout the day too. The house is small so it doesn't really warrant getting commercial equipment or getting to much clutter on the shelf.

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fe31nz

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#2926621 15-Jun-2022 00:23

You can buy Ethernet to SFP+ adaptors fairly easily. The exact specification needed is important, and NZ prices can be silly, so try fs.com.

Dynamic

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#2926630 15-Jun-2022 06:40

Trying to 'stretch' WiFi is typically an exercise in frustration. It can be done with directional antenna, but do the devices you want to use out there support this sort of arrangement? Consider a wireless bridge out to the shed, and popping a dedicated wireless AP out there. I've done this before several times for ourselves and clients. While waiting for UFB to be available in our area, we had a wireless bridge to a Geekzoner's house and were paying for their UFB.

Here is one example, and there are more expensive and cheaper options avaialble. https://www.gowifi.co.nz/preconfigured-kits/ubb.html

Even better would be to trench a couple of CAT6 cables (ideally in a duct so you can blow new cables or fibre through in the future).

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coffeebaron

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#2926637 15-Jun-2022 07:36

As above, either trench a cable or do point to point wireless between house and shed, then dedicated Wi-Fi AP in shed.

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SavageNZL

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#2927786 15-Jun-2022 10:53

Cheers for that, the P2P is a bit over kill and expensive, I guess we will go with the cat cable in a trench for that one.

Anyone have a bare minimum recommendation for equipment for the 10gbit fibre?
I was thinking UDM Pro with 1 SFP+ with a RJ45 Transceiver as the input from the ONT 110 - RJ45, then I guess the other SFP+ port as an output to a 10gbit/poe switch and feed the desktop/storage/WAP from that?
I basically want to be able to utilise 10gbit on LAN, as well as be able to use the full 10gbit on my main system, and hang a WAP off the side for mobiles but on a budget.

Dynamic

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#2927800 15-Jun-2022 11:21

I'm curious about your use case for 10GbE, if you were happy to share? Bragging rights is a perfectly acceptable answer. 😆

Performance vs cost vs hassle is something for you to judge of course. Cable is generally faster and more reliable. There are cheaper wireless bridge options. A pair of the options below would do a fine job as well.

- Ubiquiti NanoStation 5AC Loco 300mW 13dBi CPE/Bridge Radio | For All Wireless in New Zealand | Go Wireless NZ (gowifi.co.nz) or

- Ubiquiti 5GHz 23dBi LiteBeam airMax CPE | For All Wireless in New Zealand | Go Wireless NZ (gowifi.co.nz)

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nicmair

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#2927806 15-Jun-2022 11:26

These are a cheaper option for a wireless wire option, we have several of these installed, plug and play, and then they just go.!

MikroTik Wireless Wire 1Gbps 60GHz Wireless Bridge Kit | Preconfigured Kits (gowifi.co.nz)

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SavageNZL

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#2927837 15-Jun-2022 12:03

Dynamic:

I'm curious about your use case for 10GbE, if you were happy to share? Bragging rights is a perfectly acceptable answer. 😆

Performance vs cost vs hassle is something for you to judge of course. Cable is generally faster and more reliable. There are cheaper wireless bridge options. A pair of the options below would do a fine job as well.

- Ubiquiti NanoStation 5AC Loco 300mW 13dBi CPE/Bridge Radio | For All Wireless in New Zealand | Go Wireless NZ (gowifi.co.nz) or

- Ubiquiti 5GHz 23dBi LiteBeam airMax CPE | For All Wireless in New Zealand | Go Wireless NZ (gowifi.co.nz)

I just finished writing up 3 good paragraphs and clicked post but got kicked out to login screen so lost it all.

The airmax seems like it might be the ticket, i dont really know much outside of consumer router+wap combo.
Do these just work by plugging in power and ethernet from the router it will beam it across then we can plug in the far side ethernet into a machine or a WAP and be sorted?

For the other property, no particular reason. I kind of download files on need rather than having things stored locally.
The asus x89 seems like it would suit my use case but i've heard those items are overpriced sparkly marketing.
For the short term, just being able to have router for the firewall/protection + 10gbit ethernet on my system and have a WAP for other devices.
Long term it would be nice to have 10gbit in from the Nokia ONT 110, then into a router/switch that has 4x10bit out for local 10gbit + full 10gbit speed to the wan.
Then have 4 or 8 POE ethernet for cameras or whatever devices in the future. (Edit: Planning to have a NAS and Server hosted at home in the future)

But then there are so many different types of transceivers SFP+, bidi etc, different protocols, different hardware support, etc so not knowing exactly what ill need its hard to work out costings.

michaelmurfy

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#2927844 15-Jun-2022 12:19

Consumer grade routers are garbage and a complete waste of money. Read this: https://duckware.com/wifi

IMHO Hyperfibre isn't ready for consumers. I highly doubt you'll get any value out of it even if you grab large files.

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SavageNZL

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#2927928 15-Jun-2022 13:26

michaelmurfy:

Consumer grade routers are garbage and a complete waste of money. Read this: https://duckware.com/wifi

IMHO Hyperfibre isn't ready for consumers. I highly doubt you'll get any value out of it even if you grab large files.

I agree with you on all 3 points there, I thought last night that It won't actually provide much benefit over the 1gbit connection apart from saving a few minutes here and there but will definitely be under utilised in a home setting, But i do want some future proof hardware rather than spend on consumer fluff again.

BlueOwl

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#2927978 15-Jun-2022 14:52

Well, where I work we use Juniper routers. I see Acquire have got a Juniper SRX4100 which is a professional box that will comfortably do 10Gbps of routing, NAT, and firewalling for $22k (+GST) - that's quite cheap with a normal RRP of $66k. That's just for the physical box, you'll need a Junos software license which will add $27k onto that. All up, not much change out of $50k (+GST).

Yes I'm being somewhat sarcastic and there's probably cheaper boxes around. But my point is that doing routing and NAT at a rate of 10Gbps ain't cheap.

raytaylor

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#2930558 16-Jun-2022 20:13

SavageNZL:

Hi all,

Two Questions, One relating to Wifi AP, one relating to 10Gbit Home Network.

1: How do you see on the box which WiFi AP has the best transmission and receiving capability?

Typically you cant. Assume two walls for any router/access point in 2.4ghz mode or 1 wall for 5ghz as long as that wall is not concrete, tinted glass or metal.

We have a asus ac87u and would like a Wireless AP or replacement router to reach from the house to the Shed which is 100m away.

You need a mikrotik wireless wire 60ghz kit. The cheapest one will work as long as its 60ghz and no more than 130m. Use the cube version if its up to 250m. They are preprogrammed out of the box. In the garage, install any standard access point or router.

Ray Taylor

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raytaylor

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#2930559 16-Jun-2022 20:14

Because sorry my post contains too many quotes....

It works fine in the paddock (2 bars) but in the shed which is a little closer but has timber walls it drops in and out of no connection / 1 bar.
I was thinking of a new router but I believe Wifi 6 would have shorter range? if going by wifi 5 is anything to go by. I was looking at other good 2.4g router/wap combo, or just a add on WAP like a unify LR (But I would have to get a POE adaptor? and I can't tell if the signal will be better than the ac87u or if there is some budget friendly directional item).

2ghz and 5ghz have about the same range with clear line of sight. When you have to go through walls, or other mass, 2ghz will pass through better than 5ghz. Your always best to put an access point closer to the client device, and then have some sort of other backhaul such as a 60ghz point-to-point link between the buildings.

Question 2:
Looking at upgrading to 10gbit fibre at another property, the Nokia ONT 110 has a RJ45 output not a SFP+, The Asus 8 legged horror show has RJ45 for $1000 is not appealing, but there doesn't seem to be anything else to provide 10gbit capability in RJ45 format that's not multiple thousands. I was looking at a Dream machine but it only has 2 SFP+ ports, Does anyone have a Router+WAP Suggestion, I ideally want to be able to use the fully 10gbit on a dedicated Ethernet line to one machine as well as a WAP to provide solid wifi throughout the day too. The house is small so it doesn't really warrant getting commercial equipment or getting to much clutter on the shelf.

I havent checked for certain, but the new copper ethernet formats of 2.5gbit / 10gbit etc are slowly starting to come to market. Mikrotik is making routers with the capability with a couple of models released recently but anything with those ports will cost serious money. The fiber services over 1gbit are for people who want to spend serious money as it is the newest technology.

Ray Taylor

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SavageNZL

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#2930562 16-Jun-2022 20:23

Will be doing a trench and cable, (Not sure if just regular outside or need armoured). or Wireless Backhaul

I think I will get a Unifi Dream Machine Pro, the server chassis one, just use my current router in WAP mode, then get a rj45 -> sfp+ transceiver, to run 10gbit (8gbit fibre) then a SFP+ Nic to the desktop, or another transceiver and get a motherboard with 10g lan.

raytaylor

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#2930564 16-Jun-2022 20:26

SavageNZL:

The airmax seems like it might be the ticket, i dont really know much outside of consumer router+wap combo.
Do these just work by plugging in power and ethernet from the router it will beam it across then we can plug in the far side ethernet into a machine or a WAP and be sorted?

We dont recommend airmax, 5ghz or 2ghz products such as the ubiquiti nanostation, powerbeam, loco or litebeam anymore because they are quite slow by comparison to a 60ghz link such as a mikrotik wireless wire kit.

The ubiquiti stuff has a bit of a learning curve, while the mikrotik works out of the box, is preconfigured and pretty much immune to any wifi noise where as the ubiquiti airmax stuff can pick up anything for miles around.

You just connect one end into your router, and the other end into another router/wifi access point/switch/device/xbox and point the two radios at each other.

I see others have recommended you run a cable. This is always the best option. Because its 100m you will need to measure the exact distance as ethernet is not spec'd to run further than 100m over copper but you can do it further over fiber.

For fiber, you would need a 100-150m single mode duplex patch cable.
The cable should be "OS2" and not "OM3/OM4". The plugs on each end should be LC/UPC and be blue (not green).
At each end you can use a media converter or switch with a compatible sfp module in the 0-10km range. PM me for more info, happy to explain further if you like.
Doing 1gbit over fiber would be quite cheap, 10gbit is becoming quite cheap too.

However i think for the effort involved with trenching, getting the cable into duct etc, just get a mikrotik wireless wire bridge and have 1gbit - super easy.

Ray Taylor

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michaelmurfy

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#2930574 16-Jun-2022 21:07

@SavageNZL still don’t understand what you’re actually wanting here. Basically this isn’t the right solution either. Either you go full Ubiquiti if you’re going with the Dream machine or there really isn’t much point going that route at all.

There is also the other issue - routing is done in software on this router (there are documented issues with routing speeds) meaning you won’t get 10Gbit. I think you get around 2-4Gbit at a stretch depending on what features you activate.

There are some seriously skilled people who have posted in here and in previous “hyperfibre” threads too. Not to discourage but really to get true 10Gbit you’re either going to be using ex-datacentre retired gear or be spending a pretty coin. If you’re looking at consumer or prosumer options then IMHO you’re doing it wrong. The cheapest solution to achieve what you want would be Mikrotik but that comes with both a learning curve and a price.

You’re better to wait currently and perhaps look at 2.5Gbit or just Gigabit options until more networking products are launched for the consumer/prosumer market. I personally use LAC/Bonding to achieve 2-4Gbit on my Gigabit only network as a cost saving measure for now until fanless 10Gbit gear becomes a little more affordable.

I also use both Fibre (BiDi transceivers going 20m to the house as a bonded pair) as well as a Mikrotik Wireless Wire going to a workshop behind my house - my network is massive and complex for a home network but I’m also not using any consumer gear either. I’ve been keeping an eye out because I do have an actual need to go 10Gbit on parts of my network now but everything is just too expensive and made worse thanks to the chip shortage. I’m personally waiting for better solutions so I can properly future proof myself.