Mesh wifi with 3 nodes that have ethernet backhaul

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epr

252 posts

Ultimate Geek

#305748 1-Jun-2023 15:26

Hi all,

I am thinking about getting a 3 node mesh network set but I would like to have ethernet backhaul as I have enough network ports back to a central hp gigabit switch I think there is minimal point in having the units use wifi to communicate to each other. Any advice would be welcome also if I've gotten any terminology wrong feel free to correct me.

RunningMan

7957 posts

Uber Geek

#3083377 1-Jun-2023 16:48

You just need 3 access points.

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richms

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#3083384 1-Jun-2023 17:16

The mesh refers to them connecting to each other as backhaul rather than being repeaters which is a recipe for hurt with wireless.

Managed APs is all you need, no meshing required. Unifi or the new TP link one are popular as it gets them all managed from one place so you don't have to mess about configuring them one by one.

Richard rich.ms

everettpsycho

564 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3083465 1-Jun-2023 18:59

What's your budget and what sort of device count/wifi performance are you after?

I had the tenda mw6 which were fine but only AC wifi, recently swapped over to a pair of Asus ax1800 routers using AI mesh and it's ironed out the niggly issues I had running my isp router and the tendas.

Access points is an option and will be what you get told here but I opted for mesh for simplicity, it does wifi good enough for my needs using wired backhaul and can be fixed by my partner of I'm not home. I was finding APs looked quite pricey and realistically I have 4 main wifi devices plus iot stuff on a 300mb connection. Spending hundreds on each AP seemed redundant when a pair of routers imdoes the job perfectly well.

dukester

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#3083478 1-Jun-2023 20:02

I have 4 Orbi devices running in mesh, all hardwired back to main unit as I wanted to remove any interference issues with connecting them up via wifi. It’s been working without any issues from day one. It gives me excellent wifi upstairs and downstairs and around the outside of the house. I have about 35 wifi devices connecting to my network which includes 10 smart light switches and 9 security cameras.

Jase2985

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#3083480 1-Jun-2023 20:09

dukester: I have 4 Orbi devices running in mesh, all hardwired back to main unit as I wanted to remove any interference issues with connecting them up via wifi. It’s been working without any issues from day one. It gives me excellent wifi upstairs and downstairs and around the outside of the house. I have about 35 wifi devices connecting to my network which includes 10 smart light switches and 9 security cameras.

if they are all hard wired back to the main unit how are they in mesh?

everettpsycho

564 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3083485 1-Jun-2023 20:46

Jase2985:
if they are all hard wired back to the main unit how are they in mesh?

I've seen this come up before on here but it was stated then mesh does not necessarily mean wireless backhaul. The difference was the system itself, mesh is usually easier to set up with the same nodes and it's a unified system built to handle the network seamlessly, so orbi, ai mesh, google wifi ect.

Access points whilst technically better are usually something more hands on to configure and require you to add something to manage them. More like ubiquity gear.

Wired backhaul mesh is definitely a thing and marginally different to wired access points but it's becoming an incredibly blurry line between the two now. I'd say the general non techy public would be significantly better off opting for mesh over access points purely because it's simple nature means they can set it up and it will be good enough for their needs. I'd always recommend cabling the nodes no matter what system people get though as it makes a huge difference in performance and save you a lot of time and effort over access points.

PJ48

274 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3083513 1-Jun-2023 22:31

When I used Spark Smart modem and 2 xSmart Mesh all connected by ethernet backhaul I assumed it all ran as a wired MESH system, and tbh it was fairly good. I did have a few recurring issues with Airplay and roaming at times. In the end for a variety of reasons I swapped to a Unifi managed AP system, and it has been rock solid.

The main difference between the wired Spark MESH system and the Unifi wired APs, is that all 3 of the wired Spark Mesh/Modem transmitted on exactly the same wifi channels, and that was non-changeable (if you change the channel for one unit, all of them change to that channel), whereas I have configured the Unifi APs to all transmit on non-overlapping wifi channels. I have always been puzzled by the fact that the Mesh systems won't allow you to configure the units to use non-overlapping channels when they use ethernet backhaul, as that would seem to be best practice, but they don't.

I have no idea whether that is the reason my "non-MESH" wired AP system is more reliable or not. No doubt other much more knowledgeable people on the forum may know.

michaelmurfy

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#3083525 1-Jun-2023 23:42

So these days I don't really recommend UniFi / Ubiquiti just because of their software.

Value for money, the Grandstream GWN7625 is awesome. For this price you get a high end Wireless AC access point for bugger all in cost: https://www.gowifi.co.nz/grandstreamnetworks/gwn7625.html

If you wanted Wireless AX (WiFi 6) then the GWN7660 is also great value for money: https://www.gowifi.co.nz/grandstreamnetworks/gwn7660.html

Note - these do not include power supplies so you'll either need a power over ethernet (PoE) switch or injectors. For around the cost of 3x injectors you can get a cheap 5 port PoE switch (4 ports PoE, 1 port uplink) that'll suit the task fine: https://amzn.asia/d/hlCG2Si or for a few dollars more you can also get a 8 port PoE switch (4 port PoE): https://amzn.asia/d/hSdK6ix

Beauty with the Grandstream products is they have free cloud management via https://gwn.cloud or local management where a single access point acts as a controller for the rest. I personally use the on device controller and find it excellent:

But for rather little money you can get a pretty good WiFi setup. My setup consists of 3 access points actually covering 3 buildings on my property (house, mancave and a gym / workshop) with very good WiFi performance also. You don't need to go to the GWN7664 like I have and to be honest I'd advise against it as the GWN7660 for Wireless AX is all you actually need (this is what I use in the gym and get very similar WiFi performance over it).

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Senecio

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#3083612 2-Jun-2023 08:16

There are some advantages (for the average consumer) in using traditional mesh units (like Orbi) with a wired backhaul over using access points.

If the house already has a wired network in place then its a simple plug and play
They are generally easier for the average consumer to setup
They normally offer additional ethernet ports, effectively providing a 4-port switch in each room that has a mesh node

The last one is the big one for me. I'm still very happy with my dual Amplify HD router set-up. The primary router is in the main living room which provides ethernet connection for my ATV 4K and nVidia Shield. The 2nd router is set up in bridge mode in the games room which provides another 4 ethernet ports for ATV 4K, nVidia Shield and the PS5. All of my media streaming and games devices are hard wired and I get seamless wireless across the whole house.

richms

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#3083681 2-Jun-2023 09:42

PJ48:

The main difference between the wired Spark MESH system and the Unifi wired APs, is that all 3 of the wired Spark Mesh/Modem transmitted on exactly the same wifi channels, and that was non-changeable (if you change the channel for one unit, all of them change to that channel), whereas I have configured the Unifi APs to all transmit on non-overlapping wifi channels. I have always been puzzled by the fact that the Mesh systems won't allow you to configure the units to use non-overlapping channels when they use ethernet backhaul, as that would seem to be best practice, but they don't.

Mesh units with a single radio per band will use that to connect to the other ones, so its baked into their config to do that so they have a connection to the others. Proper ones with more radios in them will have one for the backhaul and another for the clients so they will usually spread the client radios out across the remaining channels.

Richard rich.ms

epr

252 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3083729 2-Jun-2023 11:09

So looking at the Orbi RBK353 3 pack AT PB PB Tech for $440 might work for me? This it is within budget and I don't want to have the struggle of setting up AP's as I'm never that well and I want a simple solution.

Thanks.

fizzychicken

310 posts

Ultimate Geek

#3083737 2-Jun-2023 11:22

I've had 3 of these for a year or two I think
https://www.tp-link.com/au/home-networking/deco/deco-x68/

I went with this as a quick option when two of my previous access points died. I just went for pure plug and play convenience rather than something that would need decent management. My requirement was that it was tri-band so that the backhaul would be on a unique channel and also have the option for ethernet backhaul.

What I found is

The wifi range is great, reaches all around the property and even down the road a bit. Problem here is the overlap is so big nearly everything will just connect to the primary point unless I intentionally tell it not to, which makes me think I could have done with just one of them if wifi was my only concern, not the three I went with.

The software is ok, the level of parental control in the mobile app is nice to force devices offline when my kid refuses to go to bed. Or just using it to lookup device details.

The ethernet backhaul to a switch works great, I could have used a switch at each point but currently only have one point using additional ethernet to my main PC. Each device has two ports, one taken up by backhaul in the current configuration but both could be used for anything if backhaul was on the third wifi channel.

The weekly or monthly reporting of use adds some level of info I guess but I mostly ignore it.

So youd think Id recommend it......but I don't, the opposite in fact. The devices have in built home automation and reporting plus extended settings and parental options....while these entirely run on your device....they are behind a subscription paywall. They are now doing this on all their range of devices, I blame myself for not looking into this before I got them but its not like they made that point clear in the advertising. The fact I own the device but cant use part of it immediately meant TP-Link falls into the 'I will never buy any product from your brand ever again' basket.

https://keybase.io/fizzychicken

Subway

34 posts

Geek

#3088914 12-Jun-2023 11:14

michaelmurfy:

So these days I don't really recommend UniFi / Ubiquiti just because of their software.

Value for money, the Grandstream GWN7625 is awesome. For this price you get a high end Wireless AC access point for bugger all in cost: https://www.gowifi.co.nz/grandstreamnetworks/gwn7625.html

If you wanted Wireless AX (WiFi 6) then the GWN7660 is also great value for money: https://www.gowifi.co.nz/grandstreamnetworks/gwn7660.html

Note - these do not include power supplies so you'll either need a power over ethernet (PoE) switch or injectors. For around the cost of 3x injectors you can get a cheap 5 port PoE switch (4 ports PoE, 1 port uplink) that'll suit the task fine: https://amzn.asia/d/hlCG2Si or for a few dollars more you can also get a 8 port PoE switch (4 port PoE): https://amzn.asia/d/hSdK6ix

Beauty with the Grandstream products is they have free cloud management via https://gwn.cloud or local management where a single access point acts as a controller for the rest. I personally use the on device controller and find it excellent:

But for rather little money you can get a pretty good WiFi setup. My setup consists of 3 access points actually covering 3 buildings on my property (house, mancave and a gym / workshop) with very good WiFi performance also. You don't need to go to the GWN7664 like I have and to be honest I'd advise against it as the GWN7660 for Wireless AX is all you actually need (this is what I use in the gym and get very similar WiFi performance over it).

Hey mate, apologies for asking here, but can I get your thoughts on using an GWN7062 as the router that connects to the ONT and a GWN7625 as an AP? Does the GWN7062 have PoE that could power the GWN7625 (some websites say it does, but GoWIFI isnt clear). Or is there a better set up you'd recommend?