DLink 502T (upgrade fw) and Apple AirPort Extreme not playing ball

Forums › LAN (ethernet/Wifi/routers/Bluetooth) › DLink 502T (upgrade fw) and Apple AirPort Extreme not playing ball

gruvin

8 posts

Wannabe Geek

#78706 6-Mar-2011 14:37

Hi

I have a D-Link 502T with upgraded firmware, running in half-bridge mode. I've been using it with no trouble and with excellent speeds for a couple of years, partnered with a LinkSys WRT54G router (custom firmware.)

I just went and bought an Apple AirPort Extreme, so as to gain Wireless-N and the hard disk sharing features. Great! But it doesn't work. :/

The AirPort is configured to gain its IP address by DHCP, but keeps defaulting back to a private (169.254.81.206) address, regardless of what is actually being offered. I explain that in more detail shortly.

It's worse than that, even. If I disconnect the phone line such that the 502T doesn't get online, then it issues a local IP address of 10.1.1.2 for the AE. In the case of the LinkSys during this same condition, I am able to route through through to 10.1.1.1 to access the 502T's web-server, just as one would expect. But the AE isn't even doing that much! It just sits there saying "No internet connection" and won't route at all.

When the modem goes online, it _actually_ issues a DHCP IP address of 60.234.136.96 -- not 169.x.x.x. But it also tells the AE that the default router / gateway address is the same, 60.234.136.96 address. I suspect this is what is tripping up the AE, though the LinkSys doesn't have any problem with it. *Frustrating* and not at all what one expects from Apple, in my experience to date anyhow.

I updated to AE firmware from v7.5.1 to 7.5.2. But that made no difference what-so-ever.

I've read elsewhere on this same forum that others are using the Apple AE with a DSL2 modem in half-bridge mode without difficulty. More frustration/confusion. :/

Any assistance with this would be greatly appreciated. Thanks.

Gruvin

gruvin

8 posts

Wannabe Geek

#445998 6-Mar-2011 15:07

I've discovered that I can get the AE to route properly if I set the Apple AE's Configure IPv4 to manual and forcibly set the IP Address and Router Address to 60.234.136.96 (my ISP provided dynamic IP at the time) -- except that it takes TWO updates/reboots to get the thing to swallow this. (First time it stubbornly resets to a private 169.x.x.x address.)

Obviously, assigning a static IP in an otherwise dynamic environment like this is not the best solution.

This all seems pretty clearly a design flaw on the part of the Apple AirPort Extreme. :/ Disappointing indeed.

Still, any advice on better ways to get things working right would be appreciated.

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Oldhat

180 posts

Master Geek

#446156 7-Mar-2011 02:42

While I haven't tried connecting an Extreme to a DSL502T, I have successfully connected one to a Netgear DM111 in half-bridged mode. Apart from the very poor connection rates from the DM111, it otherwise appeared to work relatively well.

I currently have the Extreme using PPPoE authentication connected to a Vigor 120 in PPPoA passthrough mode and this is working well.

Perhaps it would be easier to set the AE to bridge mode and just let the 502 handle NAT and DHCP for the network, but that may impact your ability to use the Extreme's usb port.

gruvin

8 posts

Wannabe Geek

#446190 7-Mar-2011 09:13

Interesting.

My 502T has a PPPoE pass-through mode available. Perhaps I should see if that translates a working PPPoA login. (Seems doubtful).

I get fine connection rates and actual tested throughput from the 502T, with the updated firmware at least. But the thing simply doesn't have the "power" to handle my NAT and pin-hole routing needs. I'm now doubting that the Apple solution will be much better, given its apparent overall lack of performance. It only just barely even has the features I need to get the job done, actually.

I've also since found that the AirPort Extreme is anything but "extreme" (unless "extreme PITA" counts :p) when it comes to connecting a shared hard disk. Whilst it worked OK with a 500GB drive, it completely refuses to do Time Machine backups on a 1TB drive, though the drive otherwise works fine on the network. Goodness knows why. (Again, others around the globe having the same problem.) I could almost live with that, except that I've also discovered the data throughput to the shared drive -- even when connected via Giga-bit Ethernet -- is quite poor. :/

This Apple AE was supposed to be my, "poor man's solution" to having something like a Mac Mini Server. I would simply continue with my old, trusty BSD server, except that I really want something super quiet and a high performer in the power-saving arena. A Mac Mini Server would seem to fit the bill... but now I'm wondering if I shouldn't just get something like a Linux powered Q-Nap gateway and be done with it. (Though I did also want Giga-bit LAN sharing of a drive for multiple Mac Time Machine backups as well. :/ I really like Time Machine. It works very well, especially compared to the endless other backup solutions I've endured over 20 years in the PC world.)

I'll report back here about the PPPoE/A pass-through attempts soonish.

Dunnersfella

4063 posts

Uber Geek

#446194 7-Mar-2011 09:27

My Airport Extreme works just fine with a ($120 WD USB) 1TB drive attached.
Not the quickest, but fast enough to stream music and video over 802.11n, to my ATV2.

gruvin

8 posts

Wannabe Geek

#446198 7-Mar-2011 09:50

Nope. PPPoE/A didn't work, as expected.

I give up. Wasted far too much time on this thing already.

My final conclusion is that the Apple AirPort Extreme is a poorly implemented router, at best, and a highly disappointing, poor performer overall.

It's going to be returned today for a full refund, "Not fit for purpose" and/or "Does not perform as advertised."

*shrug*

Back to the drawing board.

Dunnersfella

4063 posts

Uber Geek

#446215 7-Mar-2011 10:24

Where did you get it from?
Sounds like it's time to get them to set it up for you.

Ragnor

8085 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#446225 7-Mar-2011 11:05

Half bridging / ip extension isn't a standard, it's hack to "bridge" pppoa.

Remember half bridging is rare and pretty much only geeks in uk and nz are using it (practically everywhere else is using pppoe). It's not totally surprising the Airport doesn't handle it well.

Most likely custom firmware like DD-WRT/Tomato works because someone made it work because they use it.

You might want to try Router Tech firmware on your D Link, I believe this has a better implementation of half bridging than the D Link firmware.
http://www.routertech.org/

Half bridge implementations do vary.. Linksys AM300, Dynalink RTA 1320 and TP Link TD-8840 all seem to do things differently.

corksta

2385 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

Subscriber

#446242 7-Mar-2011 12:02

gruvin: Nope. PPPoE/A didn't work, as expected.

I give up. Wasted far too much time on this thing already.

My final conclusion is that the Apple AirPort Extreme is a poorly implemented router, at best, and a highly disappointing, poor performer overall.

It's going to be returned today for a full refund, "Not fit for purpose" and/or "Does not perform as advertised."

*shrug*

Back to the drawing board.

It's not the router, it's the crappy modem! D-Links are crap. I used to have one and ditched it in favour of a Dynalink RTA1320E which does half-bridging mode which is what you need if you want to get the set up working. You want a modem that has a Broadcom chipset, like a Dynalink and TP-Link.

I have the Dynalink connected in half-bridge mode to an AirPort Extreme and it works a charm.

Are you using a GenII model? My understanding is they are the only ones that support bridging mode.

webwat

2036 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#446249 7-Mar-2011 12:35

Your modem has half bridge connected to a LinkSys WRT54G? so you have only one IP address to allocate and your Linksys has it, meaning it correctly tells your Airport that its single IP is already taken and no other is available. Thats the function of half bridge.

Since your LinkSys WRT54G has been allocated the one and only outside IP address, any internal devices/computers/switches MUST connect to LAN side of the LinkSys WRT54G, which is running NAT to create an internal LAN, probably on a 192.168.x.x subnet. Airport has to be on the internal network, not the DLink. With half bridge there is no internal network on the DLink.

Time to find a new industry!

gruvin

8 posts

Wannabe Geek

#446404 7-Mar-2011 19:13

Dunnersfella: Where did you get it from?
Sounds like it's time to get them to set it up for you.

Hahaha. Very funny. Keep your bloody insults to yourself and bugger off. (Was that out loud?)

gruvin

8 posts

Wannabe Geek

#446411 7-Mar-2011 19:20

Ragnor: Half bridging / ip extension isn't a standard, it's hack to "bridge" pppoa. ...

Yup. Fair call. But you'll excuse me for still expecting a so-called top-end unit to work with it. It's not like Apple isn't aware of the mode, and plenty of people have in fact been using it for many years now. *shrug*

...
You might want to try Router Tech firmware on your D Link, I believe this has a better implementation of half bridging than the D Link firmware. http://www.routertech.org/

Thanks for the tip. Might check it out some time.

Half bridge implementations do vary. Linksys AM300, Dynalink RTA 1320 and TP Link TD-8840 all seem to do things differently.

Granted. But I still personally feel that that an expensive item like the Apple AE should handle them all. It's all the same basic deal, after all.

I've also since found that hard disk performance was unacceptably slow (over Gigabit) and that VoIP calls go all to hell through the thing, if I didn't mention that before. This is yet another topic that I now find all over the Apple Support forums.

I'm a BIG fan of what Apple are doing with nearly all their products. But I firmly believe this one is an exception -- a lemon amidst the avocados :p

Thanks for the constructive assistance.

gruvin

8 posts

Wannabe Geek

#446412 7-Mar-2011 19:20

webwat: Your modem has half bridge connected to a LinkSys WRT54G? so you have only one IP address to allocate and your Linksys has it, meaning it correctly tells your Airport that its single IP is already taken and no other is available. Thats the function of half bridge.

Since your LinkSys WRT54G has been allocated the one and only outside IP address, any internal devices/computers/switches MUST connect to LAN side of the LinkSys WRT54G, which is running NAT to create an internal LAN, probably on a 192.168.x.x subnet. Airport has to be on the internal network, not the DLink. With half bridge there is no internal network on the DLink.

Umm... seriously? DUDE! I didn't actually try to use both routers at the same time. Sheesh. :P

webwat

2036 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#446644 8-Mar-2011 13:25

You say you have a router and a modem. If the modem is on half bridge to the router, then your Airport can only connect to whatever device is functioning as the router. If your Airport is replacing the old router then it might work if setup for NAT.

Time to find a new industry!

gruvin

8 posts

Wannabe Geek

#446862 9-Mar-2011 09:32

What I at least imply if not actually say, quite clearly, is that the AE, which everyone knows is a router itself, is replacing the LinkSys router, which I've *been* using for a couple years without issue.

Please don't assume that posters in this forum are ignorant of the most basic issues when in fact they're asking for advice on quite complex problems.