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43 posts

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# 79426 17-Mar-2011 11:06
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Not really a networking expert, so hoping someone can help me out. We have recently moved into a new house, with approx 16 network ports wired back to a patch panel (Vynco VCC40). However, I can't seem to get anything working through the network back to the TP-link (TD-W8960N) modem/router. Plugging a PC directly into to router is fine (LAN light comes on etc), but as soon as I try to connect through the network and patch panel (via patch cables) there is no LAN light and the LAN connection is not recognised in Vista.

Slightly weird thing, I've had limited success using a Cat 5e cable from the PC to the network port, and CAT6 cable from the patch panel to the router (any other cable combination results in nothing). Limited success in that the connection is intermittent - Vista will alternate (around every second) between 'LAN cable connected'/not connected. At the command prompt, using ipconfig - if the timing is right it will show LAN1 connected with a 169... address (not the 198.162... address I was expecting from the router), if the timing is not right it will just show LAN1 as not connected.

Any ideas? I'm suspecting some kind of dodgy or non-standard wiring, but would be good to get some feedback from someone in the know before getting the sparky back.

An aside, we are still waiting for internet/phone to be connected (TelstraClear, 2+ weeks wait now, another story), but I would have thought the internal LAN network should still work without the WAN side connected.

Cheers
Greg


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5613 posts

Uber Geek


  # 449179 17-Mar-2011 11:40
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MG1976:

Any ideas? I'm suspecting some kind of dodgy or non-standard wiring, but would be good to get some feedback from someone in the know before getting the sparky back.



That is certainly a possibility, if not all the pairs have been punched down properly, or swapped over.

Have you tried all 16 ports to see if some work and some don't?

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  # 449188 17-Mar-2011 12:04
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Hi Greg, a 169.x.x.x address is what a Microsoft TCP stack will default to if there is no DHCP server found.

Sounds to me like its probably not wired correctly or maybe only for phone. Do you know if the sparkie did any tests, if so what, just a simple wire map test or full compliance test.

Cyril

 
 
 
 


Banana?
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  # 449190 17-Mar-2011 12:06
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Yep, sounds like your patch panel is not wired in correctly. Can you check and see that it is all punched down correctly? The correct coloured cables are going to the correct punched slots? Same at the other end (ie the wall socket)

Can you take photos?

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Master Geek


  # 449220 17-Mar-2011 13:20
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Hey, just to clear something up, what network switch are you using?


IE: You've got cables patched into the panel, then do you have cables from the panel to the switch?

 

I'm guessing you don't actually have a switch...



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Geek


  # 449227 17-Mar-2011 13:29
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pando: Hey, just to clear something up, what network switch are you using?


IE: You've got cables patched into the panel, then do you have cables from the panel to the switch?

 

I'm guessing you don't actually have a switch...


No switch, at this stage I'm only looking to connect 3 ports around the house (2 in the office for PC and NAS, and 1 in the lounge for the xbox), so intend connecting 3 cables from the patch panel directly into my modem/router.



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Geek


  # 449228 17-Mar-2011 13:32
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trig42: Yep, sounds like your patch panel is not wired in correctly. Can you check and see that it is all punched down correctly? The correct coloured cables are going to the correct punched slots? Same at the other end (ie the wall socket)

Can you take photos?


I removed one faceplate (in the lounge), and the wiring did look a bit suspect (one of the white wires looked to be free). I see there are network cable testers on trademe, would one of those help? http://www.trademe.co.nz/Browse/Listing.aspx?id=362001238 I'll also take some photos and upload tonight.

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  # 449231 17-Mar-2011 13:36
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Hi, yes one of those would help, but for a start checking all the wires are in their slots in correct order is good. there should be no wires free, all 8 should be in place.

I recommend that you get yourself a 110 tool to punch down any, just a basic plastic one is fine for the few connections you are doing, dont use a knife it will splay the IDC fork. You can get a cheap plastic tool from most electrical wholesalers for a couple of bucks.

Cyril

 
 
 
 


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Master Geek


  # 449232 17-Mar-2011 13:36
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Okay, so you're connecting your PC to a wall socket, that should be connected to the patch panel, then from the patch panel to the router. 

You're tried every socket on the panel to work out that it's wired/labelled correctly?


Have you talked to the previous owners about the set up?

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  # 449234 17-Mar-2011 13:42
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Pando, its a new house

Cyril



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  # 449235 17-Mar-2011 13:42
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pando: Okay, so you're connecting your PC to a wall socket, that should be connected to the patch panel, then from the patch panel to the router. 

You're tried every socket on the panel to work out that it's wired/labelled correctly?


Have you talked to the previous owners about the set up?


Part of the problem is that nothing is labelled (well the patch panel has 1, 2, 3 etc on it, but nothing at each socket to indicate what they match to). By plugging the PC into various sockets and cables into various places at the patch panel, I think I've found 2 sockets that match, but both are intermittent (as described in the original post). It's a new house, so no previous owners. and the sparky who wired it up (I found out today) is on holiday.

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  # 449236 17-Mar-2011 13:50
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This is a pretty straightforward setup and I agree the wiring sounds suspect.

I assume, this is the route from your pc to the router:

pc->cat5/6 cable -> network port -> cat5/6 cable (internal wall wiring) -> patch panel -> cat5/6 lead -> modem/router.

Any of these bits could go wrong, but you say plugging the pc directly to the router works ok, so you konw the PC , router, and that particular network cable are good.

I'd test your other external cables to eliminate them as being the problem.

Assuming those cables are ok, then, you have a problem with the termination points in the network port, and/or the patchpanel, and/or the cable itself (worst case scenario).

It is possible, they have not wired the network ports back to the patch panel in a star topology. That would be very bad, some electricians might do that.









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  # 449246 17-Mar-2011 14:32
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wreck90: This is a pretty straightforward setup and I agree the wiring sounds suspect.

I assume, this is the route from your pc to the router:

pc->cat5/6 cable -> network port -> cat5/6 cable (internal wall wiring) -> patch panel -> cat5/6 lead -> modem/router.

Any of these bits could go wrong, but you say plugging the pc directly to the router works ok, so you konw the PC , router, and that particular network cable are good.

I'd test your other external cables to eliminate them as being the problem.

Assuming those cables are ok, then, you have a problem with the termination points in the network port, and/or the patchpanel, and/or the cable itself (worst case scenario).

It is possible, they have not wired the network ports back to the patch panel in a star topology. That would be very bad, some electricians might do that.


Thats a good point, but then why the 16-port patch panel? Sparkie may have assumed the panel was just a way to common the separate outlets. Have a look behind the patch panel and see if there is any wire joining all the ports together. If not, can you confirm that there is only one wire per punchdown on each outlet?

If the wiring is connected but cable runs are dodgy, you may be able to get a signal by setting the LAN on your TPLink to force 10Mbps, and if it then connects then its likely a problem with cable runs.

Someone mentioned that all the wires have to be in the correct order, so while you are checking that make sure they are not crossed over. This means wiring at both outlet and patch panel must match the colour codes for T568A — if one end is wired for T568B then you will need to fix it. Also check that wires on the plug at each end of your patch cable are the same order, and if green and orange wires are crossed then find another cable once the installed wiring gets fixed.

Then ask the sparkie why they didn't test all outlets. The job isn't finished until its successfully tested at least for wiremap, which will show if any wires are missed.




Qualified in business, certified in fibre, stuck in copper, have to keep going  ^_^

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Ultimate Geek
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  # 449262 17-Mar-2011 15:20
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webwat:
wreck90: This is a pretty straightforward setup and I agree the wiring sounds suspect.

I assume, this is the route from your pc to the router:

pc->cat5/6 cable -> network port -> cat5/6 cable (internal wall wiring) -> patch panel -> cat5/6 lead -> modem/router.

Any of these bits could go wrong, but you say plugging the pc directly to the router works ok, so you konw the PC , router, and that particular network cable are good.

I'd test your other external cables to eliminate them as being the problem.

Assuming those cables are ok, then, you have a problem with the termination points in the network port, and/or the patchpanel, and/or the cable itself (worst case scenario).

It is possible, they have not wired the network ports back to the patch panel in a star topology. That would be very bad, some electricians might do that.


Thats a good point, but then why the 16-port patch panel? Sparkie may have assumed the panel was just a way to common the separate outlets. Have a look behind the patch panel and see if there is any wire joining all the ports together. If not, can you confirm that there is only one wire per punchdown on each outlet?

If the wiring is connected but cable runs are dodgy, you may be able to get a signal by setting the LAN on your TPLink to force 10Mbps, and if it then connects then its likely a problem with cable runs.

Someone mentioned that all the wires have to be in the correct order, so while you are checking that make sure they are not crossed over. This means wiring at both outlet and patch panel must match the colour codes for T568A — if one end is wired for T568B then you will need to fix it. Also check that wires on the plug at each end of your patch cable are the same order, and if green and orange wires are crossed then find another cable once the installed wiring gets fixed.

Then ask the sparkie why they didn't test all outlets. The job isn't finished until its successfully tested at least for wiremap, which will show if any wires are missed.


It depends on whether the sparkie knew what they were doing.

More than likely , it is just miswired termination points.  

You are right, the sparkie should have tested the points.

Keep track of your costs - more than likely you will have a claim against the previous owners/builder of the house.  Unless the they told you up front the network was not working. 
 



43 posts

Geek


  # 449274 17-Mar-2011 15:49
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I'll reserve judgement on the sparkie, although if his helper is any indication - when the helper came back (to install an extra light) I told him I was struggling with the network and asked whether I should use patch or crossover cables (OK so I'm a noob) and he had no idea. Also I mentioned there was nothing to plug the RJ11 cord for the modem into on the patch panel - the sparkie helper then installed a telephone port/faceplate into the patch panel, and another black box thing (maybe a filter????). I've plugged the TP-link WAN port into there so I'm hoping when TelstrClear finally get their act together and install services Internet will work (maybe hoping for too much?)

Thanks everyone for the help, will have a good look at the wiring tonight and hopefully post photos soon (pending Internet at home as tomorrow is a public holiday here in Chch).

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  # 449280 17-Mar-2011 15:58
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Ummmm, the router you have has a WAN port, is it for TCL cable or DSL, if the former then the filter (black box he installed) is not needed, if you have used the Vinco phone distribution unit that came with the kit, then I recommend you throw it out and get a 2206, which is designed for modern DSL installations.

Cyril

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