Wireless N Device setup

Forums › LAN (ethernet/Wifi/routers/Bluetooth) › Wireless N Device setup

jbmoocs

91 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 2

#92200 28-Oct-2011 16:00

Hi and thanks in advance for any constructive comments.
All my devices are Wireless N including Router, except my laptop which is wireless G. My question is will my router throttle everything down to G speed when it detects my laptop with my point being loss of data speed in real time to all my other N compliant devices.
If so would it be good to buy this dongle TM auction 418528116 and put it in my laptop so that everything is N compliant? Cheers

Fractal Note 304 (black)
Gigabye Z87 wifi ITX mobo
Haswell I5 4670k @4.5 ghz
NZXT Kraken x40
Corsair 16gb Vengeance pro @ 1800 memory
EVGA GTX780 scx
Mushkin cronos 250gb SSD
Western Digital black 2TB HDD
CMStorm Quickfire brown switch KB
CM 600w PSU

1 | 2

9073 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2499

ID Verified

Trusted

Subscriber

#538780 28-Oct-2011 16:17

Hi, no dont worry about any throttling between G and N devices that will not happen so dont bother with the dongle. The same was not the case if b devices were about, this would slow a g or n system down.

Cheers
Cyril

Ragnor

8279 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 585

Trusted

#539110 29-Oct-2011 22:22

Mixing G with N on the same AP can reduce throughput by 50-80%
http://www.smallnetbuilder.com/wireless/wireless-features/30224-add-dont-replace-when-upgrading-to-80211n

cyril7

9073 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2499

ID Verified

Trusted

Subscriber

#539411 31-Oct-2011 07:35

Hi Ragnor, interesting read, I think I should support my comments by saying the following.

I see the article was written in 2007 all using draft n chipsets one would hope (maybe too optimistic) that by now the various vendors had worked out how to socalise together such that the 50% reduction was more common than 80%.

What is important is that unlike mixing b & g the throughput reduction only impacted when the AP was feeding simultaneously g and n sesions and would recover once the g device relaxed. With a b & g setup immediately the AP sees a b device in range (attached or not) it would pull back to mode b and stay there forever, or till rebooted. For a b & g mix that meant a potential 54Mb/s channel reduced to 11Mb/s or less thats waaayyy more than 50-80%.

As for the original poster, personally I would live with a g/n mix and not loose sleep over the momentary reduction while the g device pulls traffic, a g radio with a decent laptop screen antenna typically performs waaay better overall than a USB dongle on simple radio terms, and is way more convenient.

Other thing to consider is where is most of this traffic flowing, if its between your router and the internet rather than streaming multi gig files between internal lan machines then the speeds are limited by your internet connection which is still not going to be challenged by any noted reductions, if you are moving very large files between local machines then maybe a wired connection is what you should be using anyway.

Cheers
Cyril

jbmoocs

91 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 2

#539449 31-Oct-2011 10:18

cyril7: Hi Ragnor, interesting read, I think I should support my comments by saying the following.

I see the article was written in 2007 all using draft n chipsets one would hope (maybe too optimistic) that by now the various vendors had worked out how to socalise together such that the 50% reduction was more common than 80%.

What is important is that unlike mixing b & g the throughput reduction only impacted when the AP was feeding simultaneously g and n sesions and would recover once the g device relaxed. With a b & g setup immediately the AP sees a b device in range (attached or not) it would pull back to mode b and stay there forever, or till rebooted. For a b & g mix that meant a potential 54Mb/s channel reduced to 11Mb/s or less thats waaayyy more than 50-80%.

As for the original poster, personally I would live with a g/n mix and not loose sleep over the momentary reduction while the g device pulls traffic, a g radio with a decent laptop screen antenna typically performs waaay better overall than a USB dongle on simple radio terms, and is way more convenient.

Other thing to consider is where is most of this traffic flowing, if its between your router and the internet rather than streaming multi gig files between internal lan machines then the speeds are limited by your internet connection which is still not going to be challenged by any noted reductions, if you are moving very large files between local machines then maybe a wired connection is what you should be using anyway.

Cheers
Cyril

Thanks for your time cyril and Ragnor. It was that very article in the first place that got me thinking about my dilemma. The reason I push this topic is because I have 'All share' that samsung implement in their hardware for wireless media sharing (my Galaxy s2 and my LED TV). Basically what I am trying to say is I want to stream my content using my orcon genius to all my devices over-the-air.
So My smartphone, PC, TV and Router are all wireless N and my wifes laptop/smartphone is G so therefore whenever she is using it only momentary fluctuations in speed will occur? I can live with that as I am only streaming TV episodes or my kids AVI collection from my PC; I was under the impression that it would be like what you said under wireless B conditions hence streaming would buffer content which we all hate. Also what is the the 20/40 MHz mode in my router setting, shall I leave it mixed or adjust it to 20 or 40? something to to do with Channel bonding i think.

cyril7

9073 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2499

ID Verified

Trusted

Subscriber

#539455 31-Oct-2011 10:36

Hi, I would leave it on 20/40 and it will auto bond as needed and suits each client, not too sure what mode options the Genius has but if you can have it just do g/n and exclude b then all should be good.

If you are living in close proximity to other APs about then its recommend that you set the channel such that you avoid others by the standard 6ch rule rather than auto, I would also recommend that you use wired connections for devices (ie server and TVs) that you are streaming media files between not wireless.

Cyril

jbmoocs

91 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 2

#539475 31-Oct-2011 11:10

cyril7: Hi, I would leave it on 20/40 and it will auto bond as needed and suits each client, not too sure what mode options the Genius has but if you can have it just do g/n and exclude b then all should be good.

If you are living in close proximity to other APs about then its recommend that you set the channel such that you avoid others by the standard 6ch rule rather than auto, I would also recommend that you use wired connections for devices (ie server and TVs) that you are streaming media files between not wireless.

Cyril

Ok cheers for this info I do have those options I think. And yeah at night I can see about 6 or 7 other radio connections amongst mine so will try the 6Ch setting thanks!

I enjoy the odd gaming session and with telecom I always seemed to get kicked off saying that my ping was too high. With Genius that problem has gone maybe it was the old wireless g router that telecom gave us that affected things I'm not sure. I read that asking my provider to turn of interleaving would help as well or is it a waste of time in a gamers point of view that is?

Lenovo

Shop now for Lenovo laptops and other devices (affiliate link).

cyril7

9073 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2499

ID Verified

Trusted

Subscriber

#539483 31-Oct-2011 11:19

Interleaving off will give you around 20-30mS reduction in latency, and using a wired rather than wireless connection can save you similar amounts if not more, wireless is not appropriate for gaming or streaming, but fine for general browsing.

If you want to find the best channel to use try inssider it gives you a good visual of channel occupancy, but be aware it only works on Windows (not mac to my knowledge) and you really need either a N radio in that laptop or N compatible one to see 40Mhz services.

Cyril

jbmoocs

91 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 2

#539494 31-Oct-2011 11:45

Thanks will check that out. I would use cable but I short circuited my ethernet port when i was trying to clean my mobo :( I don't game anywhere as much as I used to.
BTW cyril what's the beef about wireless, is it something to do with potential health risks or best practice? Sometimes I wonder about frying my kids brains with technology.hahaha

cyril7

9073 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2499

ID Verified

Trusted

Subscriber

#539515 31-Oct-2011 12:07

Hi, as a RF engineer I dont have anything against WiFi its great for what its best at which is a convenience connection for general web browsing, but for anything that requires minimum latency and assured high throughput then use a wire, its cheaper less complex and workss 100% something a shared wireless medium cannot give you.

Cheers
Cyril

Ragnor

8279 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 585

Trusted

#539564 31-Oct-2011 13:41

Yep mixing G and N in your context (wife's laptop) probably isn't going to be a big issue.

However if it does turn out to be a problem, a typical N usb adapter is < $50... so easy to remedy.

Ragnor

8279 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 585

Trusted

#539566 31-Oct-2011 13:43

These tables (also from Smallnetbuilder) are quite useful for explaining link rate vs approximate real world throughput...

Link Rate

Real World Throughput

Dyson

Shop now for Dyson appliances (affiliate link).

jbmoocs

91 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 2

#539591 31-Oct-2011 14:27

Thanks Ragnor that chart is very interesting & cyril that inSSIDer is very geeky but very practical ( I lol to the Wi-Spy dongle). I might as well test the hell out of my config this week, I'll borrow a mates usb N adapter and report back on what I find. Pity the Orcon genuis didn't implement the dual band 5ghz /gigabit ethernet into the mix, I read it's the way to go. Apparently even the household microwave runs at 2.4ghz as well as mrs bloggs next door & the rest sharing that frequency. I suppose you can tweak a fair bit these days.

Oldhat

180 posts

Master Geek

Lifetime subscriber

#540133 1-Nov-2011 23:16

cyril7: If you want to find the best channel to use try inssider it gives you a good visual of channel occupancy, but be aware it only works on Windows (not mac to my knowledge) and you really need either a N radio in that laptop or N compatible one to see 40Mhz services.

Cyril

If you have Mac OSX10.6 or 10.7 the WiFi page in System Information gives a substantial amount of information about local wireless access points. Just doesn't have the pretty graphical image of inSSIDer.

The main problem with Dual Band routers is the more limited range that you seem to get with the 5Ghz frequency. Personally I found signal strength and speed to be lower than connecting on the 2.4Ghz frequency.

alexx

867 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 291

#540146 2-Nov-2011 00:26

To add to what Oldhat said, if you have an HP Touchpad or some other wireless linux device, try the iw* commands.
This one will give a lot of info about access points in range.

# iwlist eth0 scanning

Replace eth0 with the appropriate wireless interface name.
More info here:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wireless_tools_for_Linux
http://linux.die.net/man/8/iwlist

#include <standard.disclaimer>

jbmoocs

91 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 2

#540650 3-Nov-2011 11:11

Ok as the topic starter here are my finding thus far...

Orcon genuis wireless N router now with 1TB usb HD attached to it. Interleaving turned off for gaming
(config: N only : Channel 6 : 20/40mhz) To Cyril thanks: I still see about 5 people in my vicinity though.

PC ASUS PCEN15 wireless N connected to my PC - adapter speed 300mbps (theoretically) very good card for the money I think. Browsing speed is near instant from 5 metres away with strength being excellent now.

Wife traded in her old notebook & got a Wireless N laptop can now stream 720p movies from the Orcon genius usb network drive without any dropouts so to the Samsung TV via Allshare no problems with all the movies working. Samsung Smartphone even though connected @ 65mbps I can stream movies via the PC only without issues via allshare.

Ping after getting interleaving turned OFF went down from 140 to around 70 -95 so not bad definately worth doing.

Connection now with all devices in N mode is good especiallly the range, also I get absolutely no kicked off messages whilst gaming. Especially when the wife uses her laptop - that used to happen with her wireless G connection.

Torrents were up with average downloads @ 1.5MBps up from 250-500kbps, Youtube has better streaming speeds too. Not sure what made those improve?

I made notes on all these aspects so the real world benefits of my connections containing wireless N are real, so problem solved and worth the effort for those wanting a a Wifi connection around the home.

Jbmoocs

1 | 2