Apple vs Google. Privacy vs data and the benefits of AI

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dafman

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#2235085 11-May-2019 17:52

amanzi:
dafman: There are already documented cases of both Alexa and Google listening/recording conversations they shouldn't have
Can you provide links? I'd be interested to find out more about this.

Alexa link here

Google link here

amanzi: I can understand that some people don't want any form of microphone in their house that may send back recordings to a corporation in America, but it's just not true to claim that these devices listen and record everything in your home 24/7.

I'm not saying they do listen and record everything in your home 24/7 by default, I'm saying you have given a corporation complete freedom to listen 24/7 into your private home conversations if they choose to.

dafman

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#2235089 11-May-2019 18:03

geekiegeek:

I recently deleted all social media services and no longer use any of googles services either after reading Jaron Lanier - 10 Arguments for deleting social media accounts right now.

I deleted Facebook after listening to Jaron Lanier.

I'm currently conflicted on Google as I get so much utility from their services. I've moved away from Chrome (now use Brave) and from Google messages (now use Signal).

I still use Gmail, Photos, Drive, Maps, Youtube and Play music, but am thinking of moving Gmail and Drive to Outlook and Onedrive.

amanzi

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#2235104 11-May-2019 18:34

dafman:
amanzi:
dafman: There are already documented cases of both Alexa and Google listening/recording conversations they shouldn't have
Can you provide links? I'd be interested to find out more about this.

Alexa link here

Google link here

amanzi: I can understand that some people don't want any form of microphone in their house that may send back recordings to a corporation in America, but it's just not true to claim that these devices listen and record everything in your home 24/7.

I'm not saying they do listen and record everything in your home 24/7 by default, I'm saying you have given a corporation complete freedom to listen 24/7 into your private home conversations if they choose to.

I remember the Google issue - they ended up crippling the functionality of the Google Home Mini to prevent it from ever happening again. That Amazon issue seems to be a failure on several fronts...

Your original posts implied that these devices are listening and recording 24/7 which is a common myth and completely untrue. Mistakes can happen, but that could apply to any 'smart' device you use in your homes - anything like phones, TVs, routers, etc could start recording everything you did at home.

chevrolux

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#2235110 11-May-2019 19:05

dafman:
chevrolux: Incorrect. Alexa only records and sends data on hearing the wake word. Confirmed monitoring network traffic.

Unsure what Google home does, but would assume it's the same.

The microphone is live at all times and listening 24 hours a day. How do you know it is not listening and sending data when it's not supposed to? You don't. You are simply relying on an undertaking from the corporation as to when it listens to you and when it sends data.
There are already documented cases of both Alexa and Google listening/recording conversations they shouldn't have and Amazon recently confirmed that employs workers to listen to users recordings in an effort to improve its software.

I know because I've looked at the network traffic.

And yep, some other words wake Alexa every now and again, but the hit rate is SUPER low.

dafman

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#2235113 11-May-2019 19:24

amanzi:... Your original posts implied that these devices are listening and recording 24/7 which is a common myth and completely untrue.

My orginal post: I'm surprised so many people are happy to put a device in their home (even bedroom) that gives large corporations carte blanche to listen/spy on them 24 hours a day.

Fair point, it's more correct to say: I'm surprised so many people are happy to put a device in their home (even bedroom) that gives large corporations carte blanche to listen/spy on them 24 hours a day if these corporations choose to at any time."

chevrolux

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#2235118 11-May-2019 19:49

As has already been mentioned, these devices DO NOT send data all the time. I'll repeat it for the third time.

THESE DEVICES DONT SEND DATA 24/7.

And if they started listening 24/7, that would be one way to quickly destroy an extremely important product line. It's the Huawei spy thing all over again.

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Nil Einne

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#2235176 11-May-2019 22:23

dafman:

I'm not saying they do listen and record everything in your home 24/7 by default, I'm saying you have given a corporation complete freedom to listen 24/7 into your private home conversations if they choose to.

I assume one of the points others are making is how many people in the modern world don't have their phone on them most of the time, probably including in the bed room? I mean at least when it's in your pocket it may be too muffled etc to properly record the entire conversation but if you're worried about the bedroom probably 80% or more of people have their phone next to them charging or just available to use. Most laptops also have built in mics, as do many webcams and even some TVs and people leave these all over the place connected and on.

dafman

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#2235177 11-May-2019 22:31

chevrolux: As has already been mentioned, these devices DO NOT send data all the time. I'll repeat it for the third time.

THESE DEVICES DONT SEND DATA 24/7.

And if they started listening 24/7, that would be one way to quickly destroy an extremely important product line. It's the Huawei spy thing all over again.

They have the potential to listen and send data whenever and you have entered into a situation of trust by putting a live microphone into your house which is connected 24/7 to a large corporate entity. And DESPITE YOUR CAPS THAT THEY DON'T SEND DATA, there is evidence that, already to date, these devices have, on occasions, listened and transmitted outside of the boundaries they were supposed to operate within.

But if you are happy, that's fine, I might just be a technological luddite and out of touch..It's just that if someone suggested, say 20 years ago, that people would choose to put live microphones inside their homes and bedrooms that were always connected to large private companies, people would have said you were nuts. But times have changed - hence the reason I started this thread. I am interested to read others views on whether the loss of privacy is something to be concerned about, or not?

Rikkitic

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#2235178 11-May-2019 22:57

Yes. It is.

Plesse igmore amd axxept applogies in adbance fir anu typos

dafman

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#2235254 12-May-2019 09:32

chevrolux: And if they started listening 24/7, that would be one way to quickly destroy an extremely important product line.

That's an interesting point. Here's a link to a list of 25 reasons Facebook should have destroyed their product through privacy breaches. Yet its 2+ billion users don't seem to care. So would people today really care about privacy breaches with Alexa or Google Home Hub?

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