Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.




2743 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1322

Trusted
Subscriber

# 249446 11-May-2019 10:10
Send private message quote this post

I read an interesting article yesterday - Apple's commitment to privacy vs Google's data harvesting.

 

With data harvesting/AI, Google are able to build apps with increasing greater personal utility than Apple (The increasing gap between Assistant vs Siri is a good example). The trade off for this greater utility is less privacy. The problem for Apple is that this utility gap will continue to increase over time - how long will users value privacy if their ability to do new things increasingly compromised?

 

Google I/O 2019 showed this week how quickly Google AI is advancing. The clear trade off though is privacy - each new AI innovation (especially advancements in Assistant) gives more and more of your personal data to Google. eg. Using Connecting smart devices to Google Home, using Assistant to automate/manage more of your daily tasks - you are basically handing over increasing amounts of personal data to Google.

 

But do people care? Personally, I'm surprised so many people are happy to put a device in their home (even bedroom) that gives large corporations carte blanche to listen/spy on them 24 hours a day.

 

Do I care? I'm uncomfortable with where Google is heading with AI, and won't be buying a Google Home Hub/Alexia anytime soon, but am I just a luddite with outdated ideas for privacy? Does it really matter that I'm a mere one of several billion that Google collects data on?

View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic
 1 | 2
3986 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1693

Subscriber

  # 2234910 11-May-2019 10:57
2 people support this post
Send private message quote this post

Google's services benefit me greatly on a daily basis. So I'm more than happy with what they collect.

 

I think just because Apple SAY they are collecting less data than Google, isn't worth the paper it's written in - just look at all the facebook garbage to see a corporate behemoth behaving badly until they get caught.

 

Same with Alexa, it's makes day-to-day mundane tasks just that much better. Well worth any info they are collecting. In fact I'm more happy with Amazon collecting that data, as opposed to Google, as they aren't the ones that run most of the advertising on the internet.


603 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 216

Subscriber

  # 2234913 11-May-2019 11:09
Send private message quote this post

chevrolux:

 

Google's services benefit me greatly on a daily basis. So I'm more than happy with what they collect.

 

I think just because Apple SAY they are collecting less data than Google, isn't worth the paper it's written in - just look at all the facebook garbage to see a corporate behemoth behaving badly until they get caught.

 

Same with Alexa, it's makes day-to-day mundane tasks just that much better. Well worth any info they are collecting. In fact I'm more happy with Amazon collecting that data, as opposed to Google, as they aren't the ones that run most of the advertising on the internet.

 

 

I disagree 100%. Look at the San Bernardino shooter case where the FBI and the wider US Government attempted to force Apple to compromise the privacy and security of the shooter's iPhone in order to collect evidence.

 

Apple took a stand and said no.

 

Personally I can see the benefits of both sides (Google having a lot of data which is helpful for AI and day-to-day stuff, and Apple being focused on privacy). I think it's a fine line to tread, a hard balance to get right.


 
 
 
 


3986 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1693

Subscriber

  # 2234917 11-May-2019 11:29
2 people support this post
Send private message quote this post

Apple taking a stand against law enforcement asking them to break encryption is VERY different to just general data collection. I have no evidence, but just think these huge tech companies are all probably doing far far more with data than anyone really knows. We would be silly to assume they are just acting purely for the consumer. 


3170 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1624


  # 2234924 11-May-2019 11:52
2 people support this post
Send private message quote this post

Tin foil hat at the ready, but at this stage comfortable that it makes life easier.  If you think Apple isn't collecting and using information in the background, you are completely deluded.  Google are just more up front about it.  

 

 





Always be yourself, unless you can be Batman, then always be the Batman



Amanzi
919 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 110

Trusted
Subscriber

  # 2234944 11-May-2019 13:01
Send private message quote this post

dafman: Personally, I'm surprised so many people are happy to put a device in their home (even bedroom) that gives large corporations carte blanche to listen/spy on them 24 hours a day.

 

 

What devices are you referring to you that you believe are listening/spying 24 hours a day?

6569 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1290

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  # 2234949 11-May-2019 13:11
Send private message quote this post

Benjip: I disagree 100%. Look at the San Bernardino shooter case where the FBI and the wider US Government attempted to force Apple to compromise the privacy and security of the shooter's iPhone in order to collect evidence.

 

Apple took a stand and said no.

 

Personally I can see the benefits of both sides (Google having a lot of data which is helpful for AI and day-to-day stuff, and Apple being focused on privacy). I think it's a fine line to tread, a hard balance to get right.

 

 

On the other hand, Apple is run by humans, and humans make mistakes. This isn't exactly about privacy, but at work the other day a staff member had left, and they'd returned their activation-locked phone. The standard process is to email Apple with the phone's serial number and a copy of the proof of purchase. Except the other day, it was "I forgot to attach the proof of purchase, and Apple unlocked it anyway".




2743 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1322

Trusted
Subscriber

  # 2234953 11-May-2019 13:21
Send private message quote this post

amanzi:
dafman: Personally, I'm surprised so many people are happy to put a device in their home (even bedroom) that gives large corporations carte blanche to listen/spy on them 24 hours a day.

 

 

What devices are you referring to you that you believe are listening/spying 24 hours a day?

 

If you have Google Home Hub or Alexia, you have installed a live microphone into your home, connected to a corporation, that is listening 24 hours a day.

3986 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1693

Subscriber

  # 2234964 11-May-2019 13:51
2 people support this post
Send private message quote this post

Incorrect. Alexa only records and sends data on hearing the wake word. Confirmed monitoring network traffic.

Unsure what Google home does, but would assume it's the same.

Fat bottom Trump
9952 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 4811

Subscriber

  # 2234975 11-May-2019 14:36
Send private message quote this post

The law of unintended consequences can also emerge here. If, say, Google is collecting a lot of random personal data via its microphones with no intention whatsoever to misuse it for nefarious purposes, or even to use it in any way at all, The mere fact of its existence and the potential that creates, might well result in something bad that was totally unexpected after a certain critical mass is reached. The Terminator comes to mind.

 

 





I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage
 


562 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 351


  # 2234977 11-May-2019 14:48
Send private message quote this post

chevrolux: Incorrect. Alexa only records and sends data on hearing the wake word. Confirmed monitoring network traffic.

Unsure what Google home does, but would assume it's the same.


Google is the same, you can also listen to what is recorded and delete if you feel the need.

Anyone would think someone is on the other end constantly listening through your device by the tone of this thread.

Amanzi
919 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 110

Trusted
Subscriber

  # 2234979 11-May-2019 14:56
One person supports this post
Send private message quote this post

dafman:
amanzi:
dafman: Personally, I'm surprised so many people are happy to put a device in their home (even bedroom) that gives large corporations carte blanche to listen/spy on them 24 hours a day.

 

 

What devices are you referring to you that you believe are listening/spying 24 hours a day?

 

If you have Google Home Hub or Alexia, you have installed a live microphone into your home, connected to a corporation, that is listening 24 hours a day.

 

 

This is not true. These devices wait for the wake-up command ("hey google", "alexa", etc...) before recording anything. I'm not saying you shouldn't be wary, but these are definitely not "a live microphone into your home, connected to a corporation".



2743 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1322

Trusted
Subscriber

  # 2235003 11-May-2019 15:21
One person supports this post
Send private message quote this post

chevrolux: Incorrect. Alexa only records and sends data on hearing the wake word. Confirmed monitoring network traffic.

Unsure what Google home does, but would assume it's the same.

 

The microphone is live at all times and listening 24 hours a day. How do you know it is not listening and sending data when it's not supposed to? You don't. You are simply relying on an undertaking from the corporation as to when it listens to you and when it sends data.

 

There are already documented cases of both Alexa and Google listening/recording conversations they shouldn't have and Amazon recently confirmed that employs workers to listen to users recordings in an effort to improve its software.

2177 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 408

Trusted
Subscriber

  # 2235043 11-May-2019 16:12
Send private message quote this post

Google and the likes of Facebook are harvesting as much personal data as possible as their entire business modal is predicated on it - you are the product. This data is used to manipulate you in many ways and not just to buy things, think US election.

 

Heres a shiny new service, now give me all of your data and I can do whatever I please with it including manipulating you in the way you act and think.

 

I recently deleted all social media services and no longer use any of googles services either after reading Jaron Lanier - 10 Arguments for deleting social media accounts right now.

 

 





When you live your life on Twitter and Facebook, and are only friends with like minded people on Twitter and Facebook, you are not living in the real world. You are living in a narcissistic echo chamber.

 


My thoughts are my own and are in no way representative of my employer.


Amanzi
919 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 110

Trusted
Subscriber

  # 2235049 11-May-2019 16:28
3 people support this post
Send private message quote this post

dafman: The microphone is live at all times and listening 24 hours a day. How do you know it is not listening and sending data when it's not supposed to? You don't. You are simply relying on an undertaking from the corporation as to when it listens to you and when it sends data.

 

This can be easily proven by using network monitoring tools. I have checked myself and many others have too. You can also read up the technical details about how these devices work. You'll soon realise that it just wouldn't be feasible for Amazon or Google to be ingesting 24/7 live audio feeds from anyone with a smart hub in their home.

 

 

dafman: There are already documented cases of both Alexa and Google listening/recording conversations they shouldn't have

 

Can you provide links? I'd be interested to find out more about this.

 

 

dafman: Amazon recently confirmed that employs workers to listen to users recordings in an effort to improve its software.

 

I read the articles confirming this, and as mentioned above, these are not recordings from 24/7 listening/spying. These are the recordings from customers when interacting with the smart devices - i.e. *after* the wake-up word has been used.

 

 

I can understand that some people don't want any form of microphone in their house that may send back recordings to a corporation in America, but it's just not true to claim that these devices listen and record everything in your home 24/7.

 


22073 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 4686

Trusted
Subscriber

  # 2235071 11-May-2019 17:14
Send private message quote this post

dafman:

 

The microphone is live at all times and listening 24 hours a day. How do you know it is not listening and sending data when it's not supposed to? You don't. You are simply relying on an undertaking from the corporation as to when it listens to you and when it sends data.

 

There are already documented cases of both Alexa and Google listening/recording conversations they shouldn't have and Amazon recently confirmed that employs workers to listen to users recordings in an effort to improve its software.

 

 

How do you know that any device isnt doing that?

 

 





Richard rich.ms

 1 | 2
View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic



Twitter »

Follow us to receive Twitter updates when new discussions are posted in our forums:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when news items and blogs are posted in our frontpage:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when tech item prices are listed in our price comparison site:





News »

Video game market in New Zealand passes half billion dollar mark
Posted 24-May-2019 16:15


WLG-X festival to celebrate creativity and innovation
Posted 22-May-2019 17:53


HPE to acquire supercomputing leader Cray
Posted 20-May-2019 11:07


Techweek starting around NZ today
Posted 20-May-2019 09:52


Porirua City Council first to adopt new council software solution Datascape
Posted 15-May-2019 12:00


New survey provides insight into schools' technology challenges and plans
Posted 15-May-2019 09:30


Apple Music now available on Alexa devices in Australia and New Zealand
Posted 15-May-2019 09:11


Make a stand against cyberbullying this Pink Shirt Day
Posted 14-May-2019 20:23


Samsung first TV manufacturer to launch the Apple TV App and Airplay 2
Posted 14-May-2019 20:11


Vodafone New Zealand sold
Posted 14-May-2019 07:25


Kordia boosts cloud performance with locally-hosted Microsoft Azure ExpressRoute
Posted 8-May-2019 10:25


Microsoft Azure ExpressRoute in New Zealand opens up faster, more secure internet for Kiwi businesses
Posted 8-May-2019 09:39


Vocus Communications to deliver Microsoft Azure Cloud Solutions through Azure ExpressRoute
Posted 8-May-2019 09:25


Independent NZ feature film #statusPending to premiere during WLG-X
Posted 6-May-2019 22:13


The ultimate dog photoshoot with Nokia 9 PureView #ForgottenDogsofInstagram
Posted 6-May-2019 09:41



Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.


Support Geekzone »

Our community of supporters help make Geekzone possible. Click the button below to join them.

Support Geezone on PressPatron



Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.

Alternatively, you can receive a daily email with Geekzone updates.