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Wannabe Geek


Topic # 240747 24-Sep-2018 10:57
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Hi,

 

 

 

Can anyone advise whether it is necessary to replace the mains input plug on appliances with 110V plugs that DO NOT have insulated pins?

 

reference to the particular standard would be appreciated, I can't seem to find a clear answer in ASNZS 3000 or 3760.


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Ultimate Geek
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  Reply # 2095375 24-Sep-2018 11:10
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Depends on a few things including the class / risk category of the appliance, whether it's being "supplied" to consumer or internal lab use.

 

Relevant standard will be something like AS/NZS 60335.1 or AS 61010-1 respectively.

 

https://worksafe.govt.nz/topic-and-industry/electricity/appliances-and-fittings/core-requirements/

 

 


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  Reply # 2096625 26-Sep-2018 10:28
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Surely it would be more important to check that the appliance can safely operate on 50Hz power first. As electric motors will often run slower, and can overheat.

And autotransformer type step down transformers also can cause safety problems as well.





 
 
 
 


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  Reply # 2101510 4-Oct-2018 13:27
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You're more likely to find an answer in the Act or Regs.

 

 

 

If it's supplied for sale, I think it's "electrically unsafe" if it has anything but the right plug on it.


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  Reply # 2117012 30-Oct-2018 18:20
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Unless the appliance specifically says 230v or a range covering 230v they are non-compliant, thus shouldn't be used or sold in NZ. Obviously there are needs to use them in this country but generally you'd be through an Isolation/stepdown transformer which is a safe way to use them.

 

 

 

also, unless the plug or socket is covered by AS/NZS 3112 it is also not compliant. - if you are doing AS/NZS3760 Testing ANYTHING that is non compliant should not be "passed" that includes the use of appliances that need travel adapters.

 

 

 

 


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  Reply # 2117091 30-Oct-2018 20:07
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On a slightly related note I am looking at some kind of plug to connect ~120v DC that I can use as a standard around the house. For DC most plugs seem to be the barrel style but I don't think these would be feasible at that voltage. The circuit breaker is 10A. I couldn't find anything too suitable or standard through a quick search. Any suggestions?

 

 

 

Related to this thread:

 

https://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=141&topicid=220224&page_no=2

 

 

 

Currently I am using 60v but the buck converters can go up to 120v so may increase voltage once I get the solar and batteries installed.






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  Reply # 2117099 30-Oct-2018 20:34
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There isn't much call for plugs at that voltage here, especially DC.

 


Clipsal makes a "492/32" which is commonly used for ELV DC, but is only rated for 32V.

 

 

 

There's guaranteed to be something CEEform, but no-one wants to use those regularly in a domestic setting.

 

 

 

I'd suggest hardwiring, given you're going to have to do serious work to make them suitable.

 

 

 

Also, you will have a very, very, very hard time finding switches, MCBs and similar that are suitable for 120VDC. Standard MCBs are usually rated to 72VDC - you need two poles in series to get a 133V rating. You'll have to special order them or use 3P and waste a pole.

 

 

 

AFAIK no standard light switches are DC rated. Some might be up to 48V-ish for campervan type use.


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  Reply # 2117118 30-Oct-2018 21:13
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You could use the "Anderson" line of plugs. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Anderson_Powerpole

 

http://andersonconnect.com.au/store/index.php?main_page=index there's a heap of options you could make up...

 

but as said above switching DC is much harder than switching AC as AC MCB's don't have enough break gap to stop DC fault currents.


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  Reply # 2117382 31-Oct-2018 13:50
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Zeon:

On a slightly related note I am looking at some kind of plug to connect ~120v DC that I can use as a standard around the house. For DC most plugs seem to be the barrel style but I don't think these would be feasible at that voltage. The circuit breaker is 10A. I couldn't find anything too suitable or standard through a quick search. Any suggestions?


 


Related to this thread:


https://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=141&topicid=220224&page_no=2


 


Currently I am using 60v but the buck converters can go up to 120v so may increase voltage once I get the solar and batteries installed.



What devices would you use on 120VDC? Any DC connector standard at that voltage would have trouble containing arcs. My Arc welder only outputs 50VDC or so at no load (as a comparison). 120VDC also won't be enough to run 120VAC power supplies. Due to the RMS Vs Peak ratio differences.

And if you are going to have a 120V battery bank. You will need some very serious fuses or breakers to be able to handle the short circuit currents. Even a cheap 12V starting battery can provide over 1000A in a direct short.





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  Reply # 2118147 1-Nov-2018 22:09
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Aredwood:
Zeon:

 

On a slightly related note I am looking at some kind of plug to connect ~120v DC that I can use as a standard around the house. For DC most plugs seem to be the barrel style but I don't think these would be feasible at that voltage. The circuit breaker is 10A. I couldn't find anything too suitable or standard through a quick search. Any suggestions?

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Related to this thread:

 

 

 

https://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=141&topicid=220224&page_no=2

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Currently I am using 60v but the buck converters can go up to 120v so may increase voltage once I get the solar and batteries installed.

 



What devices would you use on 120VDC? Any DC connector standard at that voltage would have trouble containing arcs. My Arc welder only outputs 50VDC or so at no load (as a comparison). 120VDC also won't be enough to run 120VAC power supplies. Due to the RMS Vs Peak ratio differences.

And if you are going to have a 120V battery bank. You will need some very serious fuses or breakers to be able to handle the short circuit currents. Even a cheap 12V starting battery can provide over 1000A in a direct short.

 

I am thinking of using that voltage to distribute and then convert down for the various devices as they are added for the DC house project. 120v is the max voltage under ELV. Yea I'm pretty scared of arcing TBH hence the question on this.

 

I have put 10mm cables already in the walls so I will be fine to distribute lower voltages for now without much drop and the buck converters have a wide input range. Just haven't yet thought about connectors. All of the lighting which is where I am starting will be hardwired.

 

As I won't have anything that is pluggable requiring >12v yet I suppose could just put the buck converters inside the wall and have 12v only on the faceplates with a barrel plug. Will put a fuse or breaker in less than the buck converters capacity. My main concern in doing that is heat from the converters inside the wall cavity.






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  Reply # 2118165 1-Nov-2018 22:57
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Buck converters in the walls will just waste power, as they will always draw a small load even with 0 load on the output. And most of them don't seem to have any form of over voltage protection on their outputs


What is your power source? As an option might be a variant of the original Edison DC power system. (split rail).

Simplest is to use 12V or 24V. As 240VAC switches can typically withstand it just fine. And you can use automotive fuses and switches as well. Don't try to exceed 30VDC with the above.





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  Reply # 2118171 1-Nov-2018 23:10
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120v is the absolute maximum. In reality it is illegal because the system must never be capable of exceeding 120v (never 120.1v).
You just can't meet that requirement. Your test equipment can't prove you aren't exceeding it unless it's certified, and you'd need to prove it is designed to never go higher.

That and 120VDC is so bloody dangerous.
It will burn your house down.




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