Home LED lights being affected by Ripple Control

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ekul

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# 250876 29-May-2019 15:57

Hi there,

First off I want to say i'm sorry if i'm posting this in the wrong forum, i tried to look around but wasn't sure which one was the most appropriate.

I think I MAY be suffering from ripple control by my electricity company and everyone has given me the run around to date(apart from my electrician, he's been really helpful)

I purchased the house late last year, the previous owner didn't tell me the problem existed

The symptom I have is that at peak hours, usually scheduled times 5.30 PM , 6.00 PM, 8.00 PM on the dot all the LED lights in my house hold start flickering pretty violently , generally for about 2 minutes and then stop. It definitely seems to be on a schedule.

I have had the linesman come out and check out the connection to my house outside and tighten up loose wires etc.
I have had two electricians come over separately to check out the wiring to the house(house is 10 years old) and neither can find any issues in the house.

I do NOT have a hot water cylinder, i'm on rinnai gas.

The last electrician believes I may be affected by ripple control (https://www.lpled.co.nz/ripple-control/)

Electrician has asked a supplier who can provide ripple filters, but they advise that each light individually needs to be filtered at the cost of $748...

23 lights in the house it adds up to about 9k for the whole house.

The lines company have not been helpful
Trust power have not been helpful.

I have disconnected the two dimmers in the house to make sure they're not somehow causing the issue, though the issue exists on light circuits not connected to a dimmer

Wondering if anyone has encountered or seen/heard of this before?

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# 2247819 29-May-2019 16:09

Have you tried a different LED fitting? What brand are they? Do you have a problem with other things, or lights in table lamps?

ekul

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# 2247823 29-May-2019 16:13

Thanks for the reply, yes I have, just generic 10W LED downlights

I had two die recently so had to replace them and did so with a different brand

I replaced them with these https://light.co.nz/products/econled-10w-led-downlight-dimmable-driverless and still experience the issue.

The issue is only related to my LED down lights, NO flickering of any other electrical equipment including a few halogen lamps, bedside lamps etc

wellygary

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# 2247825 29-May-2019 16:15

Electrician has asked a supplier who can provide ripple filters, but they advise that each light individually needs to be filtered at the cost of $748... 23 lights in the house it adds up to about 9k for the whole house.

New LEDs would likely be a lot less.....

I'm guessing that all the lights are the same brand??, Is the manufacturer reputable or are they "Aliexpress" specials?

If they are locally sourced than hit up the supplier and ask for help, If they are internationally "drop shipped" then its highly likely the power company will simply say they are not up to spec, and its your problem.... and there is probably not much you can do about it.... you could try sticking an RCD on the circuit and see if it helps....

ekul

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# 2247826 29-May-2019 16:17

Thanks, as above it happens to two separate brands

here is the the other brand

They came with the house so don't know where they were originally sourced from

hsvhel

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# 2247830 29-May-2019 16:19

Do any of your neighbors suffer it too by chance?

mattwnz

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# 2247832 29-May-2019 16:21

ekul:

Thanks for the reply, yes I have, just generic 10W LED downlights

I had two die recently so had to replace them and did so with a different brand

I replaced them with these https://light.co.nz/products/econled-10w-led-downlight-dimmable-driverless and still experience the issue.

The issue is only related to my LED down lights, NO flickering of any other electrical equipment including a few halogen lamps, bedside lamps etc

You should contact afew lighting manufacturers to ask them if their downlights do the same thing, or if they have heard of this problem. Replacing the fittings would be a lot cheaper than putting filters on them, if you can find a brand that doesn't have the problem. Also the fittings shouldn't have failed, (two out of 23 is quite high) as LEDs are supposed to last many years, so whatever is happening, maybe affecting their life?. I would also try out a philips LED B22 or E27 bulb in a table lamp, so see if that does the same thing. I am guessing it is driver related if halogens aren't affected. It does sound like a weird and annoying problem.

ekul

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# 2247833 29-May-2019 16:22

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Thanks for all the replies, doh, my electrician confirmed its $748 for ALL the filters total

But of a miscommunication there - if thats the case i'm happy to pay it just to fix it.

But am curious to see if anyone else has seen this before as everyone I talk to does seem to think its very rare

Also i've asked on my local community FB group which is very active if anyone else has thad the fault

richms

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# 2247841 29-May-2019 16:35

Dont get dimmable lights and that will probably solve it. I have 3 lights at home that I got dimmable drivers because that is all that lighting direct had in stock at the time, and they are always flickering even with things like starting the vacuum cleaner will make them dim out momentarily. The same lights with the non dimming drivers stay at the same brightness all the time.

Richard rich.ms

jamesrt

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# 2247888 29-May-2019 18:25

ekul: Also i've asked on my local community FB group which is very active if anyone else has thad the fault

Is this the same FB post I've just seen from someone with a very similar set of letters making up their name?

At any rate, we have issues sometimes with the LED lights on our rangehood; assuming we're in the same general area.

(PM sent)

gregmcc

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# 2247890 29-May-2019 18:33

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wellygary:

If they are locally sourced than hit up the supplier and ask for help, If they are internationally "drop shipped" then its highly likely the power company will simply say they are not up to spec, and its your problem.... and there is probably not much you can do about it.... you could try sticking an RCD on the circuit and see if it helps....

RCD's DO NOT provide any kind of filtering for ripple control - don't even bother trying

wellygary

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# 2247933 29-May-2019 19:00

gregmcc:

wellygary:

If they are locally sourced than hit up the supplier and ask for help, If they are internationally "drop shipped" then its highly likely the power company will simply say they are not up to spec, and its your problem.... and there is probably not much you can do about it.... you could try sticking an RCD on the circuit and see if it helps....

RCD's DO NOT provide any kind of filtering for ripple control - don't even bother trying

Good to know, thanks....

sparkz25

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# 2248003 29-May-2019 19:56

I would be interested to see what the voltage and frequency of the power supply is at these times.

Has the Sparky performed an earth loop test on the lighting circuits and at the Board on the mains?

Have you tested a more reputable brand? because that light you have posted a pic of looks rather cheap.

gbwelly

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# 2248131 30-May-2019 07:06

ekul:

But am curious to see if anyone else has seen this before as everyone I talk to does seem to think its very rare

I had this problem, but because I only hung out in the lounge at the times it's an issue I replaced the bulbs in the lounge with halogen. Subsequent to that I have gone with Philips Hue, which don't suffer the issue either.

nzjscott

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# 2248343 30-May-2019 11:35

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I don't know if it helps but I had the same issue with my LED lights. I ended up using a two Zellweger filters. A company in Australia makes them for ceiling fans. I can't recall all the details but I am pretty sure it is this unit here (albeit rebranded by someone): https://onlinelighting.com.au/zellweger-zf-750-notch-filter-noise-suppressor-008.html

The manufacturer I was dealing with is Gayrad. https://www.gayrad.com.au/ They can also make them with higher outputs to put on your main house load which I was considering and did get a price for, however I found that their smaller unit for ceiling fans would do the two lighting circuits I needed. I think that J.A. Russell had them in stock and they were about $120. I can't quite recall though, it was a while ago.

I have hunted through my emails for any more information I can't find anything more sorry. Hope it is somewhat helpful!

Aredwood

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# 2248406 30-May-2019 12:23

Does the problem occur at other times in the day / night? Ask your lines company for a schedule of when they send the ripple control signals, and see if it matches up with the fault times. Especially look for transmission times of ripple codes that are used for things like meter register switching, rather than codes that are used directly for load control. Does the problem still occur then?

It might also be voltage changes caused by the ripple control turning loads on and off. Rather than the ripple signals themselves.

Or maybe a neighbor has a large heatpump with failed Active Power Factor Correction. And whenever it start up, it spews out lots of harmonics into the power network.

Some dimmable LEDs are using circuits that try and detect the waveform from light dimmers, as a means of achieving better dimming control. But they might misinterpret harmonics or load switching as actual dimming.

The only guaranteed way of fixing the problem is to get non dimmable LEDs as already mentioned.

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