Smart Plugs , energy monitoring , water pumps and scheduling

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seretonin

58 posts

Master Geek

#290097 21-Oct-2021 07:36

Hello fellow geekzoners,

I have two pumps on my property feeding my house and two neighbors properties , i would like to set them up using a smart plugs that keeps/logs energy usage over time so i can split the power usage 3 ways , im trying to keep my costs down as well , so would i be able to do this using some of the smartplugs available through pbtech ? also i dont have a smart metre as well (1970's) house . also since the bore pump fills a water tank using a simple ballcock float value it has a habbit of going on and off often , so i was thinking i could run a schedule where it turns on every other hour or whatever i see fit ? no doubt these smart plugs off these services ? the most import thing is that it logs the usages so i can bill the neighbor's when i see fit. i see some plugs offer power usages and some offer energy monitoring i take it that theres a difference , any of you lads recommend me anything or put me on the right track , cheers all opinions welcomed

https://www.pbtech.co.nz/category/smart-home-security/smart-power

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#2798416 21-Oct-2021 08:26

First thing I would look into is stopping the pump cycling unnecessarily. Then, I'd probably just install a power meter rather than a smart switch. Since you're billing when you see fit, all you need is the accumulated usage, not real time data.

To stop the pump cycling, you could add a time delay relay so there is a delay between the ball cock triggering the event and the pump starting.

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timmmay

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#2798423 21-Oct-2021 08:51

Kasa Smart Plug with Energy Monitor might do the job. I have one of these, and two of the older model, they work great. They have a timer so you can schedule it, and energy monitoring that shows power usage today / past 7 days / past 30 days. For example, I can see i've used 104kwh in my office fan heater in the past month average 3.5kw/day. The app works well on Android. Really super easy and happy with them. Not weatherproof.

seretonin

58 posts

Master Geek

#2798431 21-Oct-2021 09:01

Yeah im in the process of getting a new 18 litre pressure tank , old one is kaput (full of water not air) a new non-return valve at bottom of bore and a digital pressure switch , what kind of power meter would you recommend ? its just that the pumps are in different sheds connected to different switchboards which makes it confusing .also with the kasa plugs is it a month max the log history or can it go back further then that ? was hoping to bill 3-6 monthly ....i need to learn to proof read before posting(sorry for poor spelling)

timmmay

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#2798445 21-Oct-2021 09:23

Kasa seems to be past 30 days only. You would have to put a reminder in your calendar every 30 days to check, or you could just do that for a few months and do a set price maybe. A meter might be a better option, that way you can check it whenever you like, you just need to keep the record of readings yourself.

Zorg2000

71 posts

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#2798453 21-Oct-2021 09:36

You could also look at a Shelly 1PM or Shelly 2.5. They do energy usage and scheduling. Energy monitoring does 24hr, weekly, monthly, yearly or custom dates. Wifi coverage could be an issue depending on where you connect them (you don't necessarily have to connect them at the pump shed end depending on where the power supply comes from but will most likely need an electrician).

SirHumphreyAppleby

2830 posts

Uber Geek

#2798455 21-Oct-2021 09:48

seretonin:

Yeah im in the process of getting a new 18 litre pressure tank , old one is kaput (full of water not air) a new non-return valve at bottom of bore and a digital pressure switch , what kind of power meter would you recommend ? its just that the pumps are in different sheds connected to different switchboards which makes it confusing .also with the kasa plugs is it a month max the log history or can it go back further then that ? was hoping to bill 3-6 monthly ....i need to learn to proof read before posting(sorry for poor spelling)

The only plug-in power meter I've used is the Elto one (http://www.elto.co.nz/product-catalogue/electrical-accesories/accessories/power-meter). There are two versions of this. The newer one (with three batteries for backup IIRC) is the more accurate of the two. There are a few other options out there, including a few plug-in models, hard-wired and clamp-on types.

While some smart switches also have power metering, I would avoid these as they're just another component that can fail. If you do go down that route and don't mind wiring it up, the Shelly 1PM Zorg2000 mentioned seems to be a good option.

PolicyGuy

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#2798594 21-Oct-2021 10:42

Doesn't this "two pumps on my property feeding my house and two neighbors properties" setup make you a drinking water system owner and operator under the Water Services Act 2021?
(https://legislation.govt.nz/act/public/2021/0036/latest/whole.html#LMS374692)

IANAL, but on first reading I think it does, as it does not seem to be a "domestic self-supply" under Section 10.
You may want to consult a lawyer about the liabilities to which you may now be exposed, and whether it is viable for you to continue this arrangement after the Act comes into effect, which I think is 4th October 2023

magnetonz

23 posts

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#2798650 21-Oct-2021 11:21

Please also consider these are motors and not just a normal resistive load.
Some inline power meters and especially remote switching/relays will need to be selected taking this into account.

There are many photos of people trying to do this on google, and not selecting the correct rated device.
Lets just say melted plastic and sometimes fire.

nickb800

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#2798655 21-Oct-2021 11:30

magnetonz:

Please also consider these are motors and not just a normal resistive load.
Some inline power meters and especially remote switching/relays will need to be selected taking this into account.

There are many photos of people trying to do this on google, and not selecting the correct rated device.
Lets just say melted plastic and sometimes fire.

Good point - in which case a CT coil based power meter might be a good option e.g. Shelly 3EM or EM. Still need to wire it into mains to give the device a power supply, but no need to sit in the middle of the pump's power supply. Sounds like the OP may not need control once they sort out the pressure vessel.

I have a Shelly 3EM - this stores data for years so you would be fine doing 3-6 monthly billing with this or a similar Shelly product.

seretonin

58 posts

Master Geek

#2798727 21-Oct-2021 12:10

thanks for your help everyone , alot of information to absorb , especially about the water reforms.......water has been tested and also on top of pumps there is a salt filtration system.... pretty much being carrying two properties for a couple of years ,think ill get legal advise based on the reforms for 2024 , talked to the pump technician today , he said that even farmers who provide accommodation to their workers in (farm cottages) will be liable under the proposed three waters reforms , so i image a alot of people will be on the same boat. also the shelly products look great.

Obraik

2119 posts

Uber Geek

#2798840 21-Oct-2021 15:50

I got an Arlec smart metering socket from Bunnings and then flashed it with Tasmota and integrated it into my existing Home Assistant install. I now have two, one tracking the power consumption of the dryer and another on my home server cabinet. Since it's in Home Assistant there's no time limit on how long it will track data.

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timmmay

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#2798926 21-Oct-2021 19:33

The great thing about Kasa is it works out of the box. No flashing ROMs, no home assistant which is a real bear to understand and get working properly, Kasa just works. But a power meter probably works better in this case.

Obraik

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#2799027 21-Oct-2021 20:46

In my case, I purposely picked the Arlec because it could be flashed with Tasmota so that it's not reliant on a cloud service to run - it all runs on my local LAN.

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