Advice on best 'budget' PoE cameras for decent low light performance? .

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jonathan18

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#302462 25-Nov-2022 11:10

I'm looking to replace two Amcrest dome PoE cameras due to an ongoing issue with haze/fog at night - I've wasted enough time trying to sort this. (Having turned off the IR to reduce this problem, the resulting footage when the houses being built next door got broken into was pretty useless!)

I like the wide FoV of the Amcrests and find they offer decent bang for buck, so am ideally looking to stick with the same brand. A like-for-like replacement would be this model IP5M-T1179EW-28MM (I imagine it's got identical innards to my current ones).

But I'm also thinking this is probably the best opportunity to also see if I can improve low light performance. Would either of these models be significantly better for this than the 5MB model I'm otherwise looking at?

IP8M-T2669EW-AI

IP8M-T2599EW

Or are there other brands/models anyone would recommend? (Need to be PoE, compatible with Synology Surveillance, and ideally below $250 NZ each). @MarkM536 - I'd really appreciate your input! Thanks.

(Note: I did have this originally posted on an existing thread but it's not directly related so have removed that one.)

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#3001257 25-Nov-2022 11:28

Reolink is having a Black Friday sale funnily enough

RLC-810a ($61 USD) or RLC-820a ($72 USD) seem to do well from what I have seen from my BIL's setup. I've got some RLC-410s that have been sitting a box since I picked them up on a good special in Jan that I am perpetually getting around to wiring up.

jonathan18

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#3001266 25-Nov-2022 11:48

ShinyChrome:

Reolink is having a Black Friday sale funnily enough

RLC-810a ($61 USD) or RLC-820a ($72 USD) seem to do well from what I have seen from my BIL's setup. I've got some RLC-410s that have been sitting a box since I picked them up on a good special in Jan that I am perpetually getting around to wiring up.

Thanks, ShinyChrome - yeah, I've ummed and arrred over Reolink - I've got a couple of Reolink WiFi cameras that I'm pretty happy with (apart from the spiders making webs over the lens!), and the night vision on the one outside is pretty decent (though that's no guarantee as to how it would perform in the same spots as the Amcrests). The reason why I've been wary is that they've got a relatively narrow FoV - 87 degrees vs 103 degrees with the Amcrests; perhaps I need to confirm for either way if the narrower angle will work in both settings...

Edit: Oops, I see the bullet-style Reolink is available with a 2.8mm lens with a 103 degree FoV, as well as 4.0mm and 6.0mm.

Is there any downside from a low light performance perspective in electing for a wider-angle model?

jonathan18

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#3001304 25-Nov-2022 13:42

So pretty ready to press 'buy' on a couple of the 4K Reolinks - a 2.8mm bullet for where I need a wide angle, but I'm thinking a narrower angle 4.0mm lens will be better for the other location (cut out irrelevant areas). The 4.0 comes in both bullet and turret form - is one of these forms either better for night vision (assuming not given the innards are the same), or more suitable for mounting on a soffit?

Yoban

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#3001323 25-Nov-2022 13:45

Have you seen this review: 2022 Update BEST 4K PoE Security Camera: $1100 vs $110 Motorized Zoom Cameras. - YouTube and 10 Color Night Vision Cameras TESTED - Hikvision, Dahua, Reolink, Lorex, Amcrest, Annke - YouTube

jonathan18

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#3001337 25-Nov-2022 14:25

Yoban:

Have you seen this review: 2022 Update BEST 4K PoE Security Camera: $1100 vs $110 Motorized Zoom Cameras. - YouTube and 10 Color Night Vision Cameras TESTED - Hikvision, Dahua, Reolink, Lorex, Amcrest, Annke - YouTube

Thanks, that was really useful viewing, not only for the reviews themselves but the comments re trade-offs between field of view and night-time performance.

What else was interesting is in the earlier of those two videos the Reolink RLC-811A has absolutely terrible night-time video and, unsurprisingly, does poorly; in the second video it's actually one of the recommended models (thanks to bang for buck), and its night-time video is decent if not spectacular. Given the model number's the same, perhaps a firmware update fixed flaws in the original version?

Anyway, I'm certainly tempted to grab a couple of these cameras (works out at about $300 NZ) - are there any particular 'gotchas' I should be aware of, given the 5x zoom, plus the colour night mode and inclusion of white LEDs? (These things seem to provide some additional flexibility and features, but I'm aware there could also be downsides.)

neb

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#3001342 25-Nov-2022 14:41

jonathan18:
I'm looking to replace two Amcrest dome PoE cameras due to an ongoing issue with haze/fog at night - I've wasted enough time trying to sort this.

For people reading this who aren't aware of it, Amcrest = Dahua so the OP is asking about Dahua cameras.

Got the same problem, I get fogging in the dome no matter what I do, and the camera is a formerly-cheap, now outrageously expensive, zoom one that I don't want to pay 3x the original price to replace, sigh.

Edited to add: If you are getting Dahuas now I'd recommend getting the AI ones even if your current NVR can't do much with that at the moment, their motion detection is much better than the older region-change detection.

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jonathan18

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#3001343 25-Nov-2022 14:44

neb: For people reading this who aren't aware of it, Amcrest = Dahua so the OP is asking about Dahua cameras. Got the same problem, I get fogging in the dome no matter what I do, and the camera is a formerly-cheap, now outrageously expensive, zoom one that I don't want to pay 3x the original price to replace, sigh.

So you won't be in the market to purchase two slightly used Amcrest dome cameras in a few weeks?!

Interesting to hear you've also tried and failed to sort this problem. I so wish I'd never gone the dome route, but at least the hard work's been done to get the ethernet in place, so it'll be a relatively painless fix.

pih

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#3001344 25-Nov-2022 14:50

Just a thought: is this condensation? Could you try chucking in a small dessicant sachet into the camera enclosure and see if that helps?

neb

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#3001345 25-Nov-2022 14:56

jonathan18:
So you won't be in the market to purchase two slightly used Amcrest dome cameras in a few weeks?!

The reason I haven't replaced them yet is that the dome ones are pretty much completely insect-proof, nothing to anchor to on the smooth domes, while I suspect the turret ones would have spider webs and ants and whatnot in them fairly quickly, it's a warm dry place with crevices and crannies. Google "turret cameras spiders" for an indication of what you might be in for. The better tradeoff at the moment seems to be the dome models even if there's a bit of fogging on some nights.

neb

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#3001347 25-Nov-2022 14:59

pih: Just a thought: is this condensation? Could you try chucking in a small dessicant sachet into the camera enclosure and see if that helps?

Not on my ones, sealed them on on a 40% humidity day with dessicant inside and I still get it, it seems to be IR reflections off surface moisture on the outside of the dome with 95+% atmospheric moisture. So the value is having the IR emitters outside the dome, not the camera itself.

To the OP: Depending on whether it's feasible, you could try an external IR spotlight and then disable the in-dome illumination. In my case it's not possible because I've only got PoE sealed inside the dome mount.

jonathan18

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#3001348 25-Nov-2022 15:01

pih: Just a thought: is this condensation? Could you try chucking in a small dessicant sachet into the camera enclosure and see if that helps?

Yeah, that's initially what I thought it could be, and I added additional sachets; that said, the camera area is supposed to be sealed against the dome (so not even really open to the wider housing) - I wasn't convinced that seal was pressing firmly against the dome, so I added a spacer to improve the seal, but that's made no difference.

Also tried the obvious like cleaning, using window de-fogging spray etc. As my mate BT would say, enough is enough!

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jonathan18

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#3001349 25-Nov-2022 15:05

neb: The reason I haven't replaced them yet is that the dome ones are pretty much completely insect-proof, nothing to anchor to on the smooth domes, while I suspect the turret ones would have spider webs and ants and whatnot in them fairly quickly, it's a warm dry place with crevices and crannies. Google "turret cameras spiders" for an indication of what you might be in for. The better tradeoff at the moment seems to be the dome models even if there's a bit of fogging on some nights.

The difference is I know the spider problem can be fixed in a few seconds; irritating to get out a ladder, for sure, but at least I know there's a fix. Currently, most of night-time footage is of little value, whereas that's not an issue with the bullet camera.

neb: To the OP: Depending on whether it's feasible, you could try an external IR spotlight and then disable the in-dome illumination. In my case it's not possible because I've only got PoE sealed inside the dome mount.

Thanks; yeah, I also looked into this, but it's a power issue; we have no power running to these locations, and I was unable to find anything that could piggyback off the same single run of Ethernet as the camera. Sadly no dice.

jonathan18

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#3001471 25-Nov-2022 17:35

Thanks, @ShinyChrome - based on your suggestion re Reolink, I've re-looked at their models; and thanks also to @Yoban for those YT links, on which basis I went with the RLC-811A model. I'm hoping night image quality is closer to the more recent of those two videos, but surely nothing can be as bad as in the first video?! (Worse than anything from the first cameras we had, which were cheap-as Wyze ones!) Here are screenshots from those two videos:

panther2

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#3001540 25-Nov-2022 22:23

neb:
jonathan18:
I'm looking to replace two Amcrest dome PoE cameras due to an ongoing issue with haze/fog at night - I've wasted enough time trying to sort this.

For people reading this who aren't aware of it, Amcrest = Dahua so the OP is asking about Dahua cameras.

Got the same problem, I get fogging in the dome no matter what I do, and the camera is a formerly-cheap, now outrageously expensive, zoom one that I don't want to pay 3x the original price to replace, sigh.

Edited to add: If you are getting Dahuas now I'd recommend getting the AI ones even if your current NVR can't do much with that at the moment, their motion detection is much better than the older region-change detection.

These are 153nzd on amazon au free shipping to nz

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#3001542 25-Nov-2022 22:27

What effect does the 103 V 87 FOV have on usable distance especially at night?

Also is there an easy way to check out what viewing capture area you would get with either FOV to help choose which FOV you might need for the chosen mounting location? I reckon I can probably cover the area I need with two camera depending on the capture area.

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