Looking for recommendations on powerboards with my UPS

Forums › Gadgets, robotics, home automation, electronics (including wearables) › Looking for recommendations on powerboards with my UPS

Krispkiwi

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#303597 21-Feb-2023 10:56

Hey everyone,

I just purchased this UPS mostly as a backup for my Synology server which is currently connected to this powerboard along with my TV, Unifi USG, Switch, Stereo which I use as a makeshift sound system for my TV, a little converter box that helps the sound process in through the stereo and RP4 for my home assistant server. I'm reading online that it's not a good idea to plug a powerboard with surge protection into a UPS as it can cancel out the surge protection and give false readings to load on the UPS. Currently the load data shows that when I'm using my Plex server with the Tv on, home assistant running etc the max load coming in at 65% but now I'm not sure if this is incorrect or not.

Would anyone be able to recommend what you would do in this situation? I've been looking at dumb powerboards but surge protection appears to be standard in any that are 8 wide or what you would do in this situation? I'm renting and there's not many plugs in the flat to work with.

Cheers

rscole86

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#3039980 21-Feb-2023 11:46

As the UPS has two ports, could you just use two HPM 4 port power boards?
Eg D105/4TR, assuming you might need transformer spacing?

I have not done it myself, but I would recommend you add devices incrementally and test the load when powering on/off to make sure your UPS can handle it.

Krispkiwi

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#3040176 21-Feb-2023 16:25

rscole86: As the UPS has two ports, could you just use two HPM 4 port power boards?
Eg D105/4TR, assuming you might need transformer spacing?

I have not done it myself, but I would recommend you add devices incrementally and test the load when powering on/off to make sure your UPS can handle it.

Everything I'm finding has "Overload protection" unsure if that's also an issue to have on a powerboard linked to a UPS

mdooher

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#3040183 21-Feb-2023 16:38

A power board only has a thermal circuit breaker. It will not affect your UPS in any way.

If it is super flash it will have a VDR across the conductors.. just like your UPS.. it will make no difference at all

Don't worry about it... also if you by a power board that seems hard to but the plug in the first time but super easy the next time... throw it out. the big red shed used to sell those (may still do) and they are are very bad they are the ones you see burnt out

Matthew

rscole86

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#3040195 21-Feb-2023 16:58

As above, I don't think overload impacts the UPS, but surge can.

Krispkiwi

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#3040197 21-Feb-2023 17:06

mdooher:

A power board only has a thermal circuit breaker. It will not affect your UPS in any way.

If it is super flash it will have a VDR across the conductors.. just like your UPS.. it will make no difference at all

Don't worry about it... also if you by a power board that seems hard to but the plug in the first time but super easy the next time... throw it out. the big red shed used to sell those (may still do) and they are are very bad they are the ones you see burnt out

The one I have is this one: https://www.pbtech.co.nz/product/SURJAC8012/Jackson-PT8012-8-way-Protected-Power-Board-with-ma?gclid=CjwKCAiA0cyfBhBREiwAAtStHJ5bGAayp9fAvLBAKNVevGa6o1HKGUPfGjSdrlgqZ1SGAgra0H0PwxoCoDEQAvD_BwE

APC has got this on their website "The noise filtration circuitry in a surge protector can effectively "mask" some of the load from the UPS, causing the UPS to report a lower percentage of attached load than there actually is. This can cause a user to inadvertently overload their UPS. When the UPS switches to battery, it may be unable to support the equipment attached, causing a dropped load.

Surge protectors utilize MOVs (Metal Oxide varistors) in their circuitry. Nonconforming MOVs in a surge protector connected to a UPS may cause the UPS to report an overload or a short circuit alarm.

Surge protectors filter the power for surges and offer EMI/RFI filtering but do not efficiently distribute the power, meaning that some equipment may be deprived of the necessary amperage it requires to run properly causing your attached equipment (computer, monitor, etc) to shutdown or reboot. If you need to supply additional receptacles on the output of your UPS, we recommend using Power Distribution Units (PDU's). PDUs evenly distribute the amperage among the outlets, while the UPS will filter the power and provide surge protection. PDUs use and distribute the available amperage more efficiently, allowing your equipment to receive the best available power to maintain operation."

rscole86

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#3040200 21-Feb-2023 17:11

You're confusing yourself between surge and overload.

Yes a PDU will work, but they start from around $100 each.

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mdooher

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#3040203 21-Feb-2023 17:18

Krispkiwi:

mdooher:

A power board only has a thermal circuit breaker. It will not affect your UPS in any way.

If it is super flash it will have a VDR across the conductors.. just like your UPS.. it will make no difference at all

Don't worry about it... also if you by a power board that seems hard to but the plug in the first time but super easy the next time... throw it out. the big red shed used to sell those (may still do) and they are are very bad they are the ones you see burnt out

The one I have is this one: https://www.pbtech.co.nz/product/SURJAC8012/Jackson-PT8012-8-way-Protected-Power-Board-with-ma?gclid=CjwKCAiA0cyfBhBREiwAAtStHJ5bGAayp9fAvLBAKNVevGa6o1HKGUPfGjSdrlgqZ1SGAgra0H0PwxoCoDEQAvD_BwE

APC has got this on their website "The noise filtration circuitry in a surge protector can effectively "mask" some of the load from the UPS, causing the UPS to report a lower percentage of attached load than there actually is. This can cause a user to inadvertently overload their UPS. When the UPS switches to battery, it may be unable to support the equipment attached, causing a dropped load.

Surge protectors utilize MOVs (Metal Oxide varistors) in their circuitry. Nonconforming MOVs in a surge protector connected to a UPS may cause the UPS to report an overload or a short circuit alarm.

Surge protectors filter the power for surges and offer EMI/RFI filtering but do not efficiently distribute the power, meaning that some equipment may be deprived of the necessary amperage it requires to run properly causing your attached equipment (computer, monitor, etc) to shutdown or reboot. If you need to supply additional receptacles on the output of your UPS, we recommend using Power Distribution Units (PDU's). PDUs evenly distribute the amperage among the outlets, while the UPS will filter the power and provide surge protection. PDUs use and distribute the available amperage more efficiently, allowing your equipment to receive the best available power to maintain operation."

MOV's and VDRs are the same thing. Unless you are in an area with very high harmonic content (your UPS is in a factory) forget about it. If you have any problems (you won't) Just use a cheap power board (taking my previous comments into account) your UPS is the best surge protection you can have anyway.

Matthew

neb

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#3040212 21-Feb-2023 17:39

Krispkiwi: >Surge protectors utilize MOVs (Metal Oxide varistors) in their circuitry. Nonconforming MOVs in a surge protector connected to a UPS may cause the UPS to report an overload or a short circuit alarm.

Even beyond that, MOV-based "protection" is garbage, someone figured out they could charge more for a power board by strapping a ten-cent MOV across it and now everyone feels they need to do it. To save having to type all this up I'll link to... ahh, this will do. I make a point of having zero of these things in the house, and it's been just as effective as having a MOV-based protection device on every outlet.

(OK, I have an active sinewave tracking filter in front of the IT gear but that was just because I had one at hand).

In terms of powering stuff off the UPS, you want to have the fanout in the DC power supply, not the UPS. I have a single line running to a 6-port USB power supply and another to a 12V Meanwell Class VI power brick, and the fanout occurs after the AC->DC conversion so you're not getting conversion losses in ten different power bricks.

tweake

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#3040214 21-Feb-2023 17:42

Krispkiwi:

mdooher:

A power board only has a thermal circuit breaker. It will not affect your UPS in any way.

If it is super flash it will have a VDR across the conductors.. just like your UPS.. it will make no difference at all

Don't worry about it... also if you by a power board that seems hard to but the plug in the first time but super easy the next time... throw it out. the big red shed used to sell those (may still do) and they are are very bad they are the ones you see burnt out

The one I have is this one: https://www.pbtech.co.nz/product/SURJAC8012/Jackson-PT8012-8-way-Protected-Power-Board-with-ma?gclid=CjwKCAiA0cyfBhBREiwAAtStHJ5bGAayp9fAvLBAKNVevGa6o1HKGUPfGjSdrlgqZ1SGAgra0H0PwxoCoDEQAvD_BwE

APC has got this on their website "The noise filtration circuitry in a surge protector can effectively "mask" some of the load from the UPS, causing the UPS to report a lower percentage of attached load than there actually is. This can cause a user to inadvertently overload their UPS. When the UPS switches to battery, it may be unable to support the equipment attached, causing a dropped load.

Surge protectors utilize MOVs (Metal Oxide varistors) in their circuitry. Nonconforming MOVs in a surge protector connected to a UPS may cause the UPS to report an overload or a short circuit alarm.

Surge protectors filter the power for surges and offer EMI/RFI filtering but do not efficiently distribute the power, meaning that some equipment may be deprived of the necessary amperage it requires to run properly causing your attached equipment (computer, monitor, etc) to shutdown or reboot. If you need to supply additional receptacles on the output of your UPS, we recommend using Power Distribution Units (PDU's). PDUs evenly distribute the amperage among the outlets, while the UPS will filter the power and provide surge protection. PDUs use and distribute the available amperage more efficiently, allowing your equipment to receive the best available power to maintain operation."

not many surge protectors come with noise filtering. its really only high end models that would have it. the average power board won't.

the UPS should be filtering the output anyway. they are just saying they make low quality product.

MOV's should never trigger anyway, unless its a really crappy ups thats spiking the output.

tweake

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#3040216 21-Feb-2023 17:46

neb:
Krispkiwi: >Surge protectors utilize MOVs (Metal Oxide varistors) in their circuitry. Nonconforming MOVs in a surge protector connected to a UPS may cause the UPS to report an overload or a short circuit alarm.
Even beyond that, MOV-based "protection" is crap, someone figured out they could charge more for a power board by strapping a ten-cent MOV across it and now everyone feels they need to do it.

yes thats about right. back in the day they where selling powerboard surge protection with a single MOV for around $150. i think consumer mag did testing on them and found most to be junk.

i have a couple of usa made (for au/nz) that have like 20+ mov's stacked in there.

Krispkiwi

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#3040265 21-Feb-2023 18:10

Thanks everyone, this is my first time getting a UPS so wanting to make sure I was doing it right, sounds like I'm good to continue with the powerboard I have, thanks :)

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Krispkiwi

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#3040385 21-Feb-2023 20:44

rscole86: As above, I don't think overload impacts the UPS, but surge can.

Now I'm second guessing myself having just seen this reply 😂 so I'm fine with getting an powerboard with overload but without the surge protection and toss the current one?

neb

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#3040432 21-Feb-2023 23:57

Krispkiwi:
Now I'm second guessing myself having just seen this reply 😂 so I'm fine with getting an powerboard with overload but without the surge protection and toss the current one?

Get a power board without anything except sockets, the UPS will take care of the rest.

And be careful about getting the cheapest-junk power boards, they often have barely-functional flimsy formed sheet metal contacts that can arc and/or make very poor contact with the plugs.

Krispkiwi

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#3040776 23-Feb-2023 10:32

neb:
Krispkiwi:

Now I'm second guessing myself having just seen this reply 😂 so I'm fine with getting an powerboard with overload but without the surge protection and toss the current one?

Get a power board without anything except sockets, the UPS will take care of the rest. And be careful about getting the cheapest-junk power boards, they often have barely-functional flimsy formed sheet metal contacts that can arc and/or make very poor contact with the plugs.

Do you have any recommendations, everything i saw beyond the cheapest stuff had surge protectors.

mdooher

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#3040779 23-Feb-2023 10:39

MITRE 10 has some quite reasonably price ones. get the ones designed for power tool use (HPM etc) , not those flimsy off white ones like Arlec or Number 8

something like this:

https://www.mitre10.co.nz/shop/hpm-plug-boss-powerboard-5-outlet-1-8m-yellow-and-black/p/106064

Matthew