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Topic # 88616 19-Aug-2011 13:17
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Soon to start building my new home. Still trying to decide on a heat pump for the house.

Is anyone aware of any Heat Pumps that support control via IP or RS232?
I want to remotely turn on my heat pump from my phone or PC so the house is warm before I get home.
Not really interested in using the timer functions on most heat pumps. I'm alway arriving home at different times.
Or is it possible to buy a IP thermostat that can interface with a heat pump. 

Thanks

Grant 

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  Reply # 508975 19-Aug-2011 13:27
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The easiest way is to order one with a wiring loom which allows you to put hardwire an enable signal. You can then wire that into some form of interface (either connected direct to your PC or via a GSM module with outputs).

If you want to do an High Level Interface via IP then you're looking at BACnet which isn't cheap or particularly easy.

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  Reply # 509028 19-Aug-2011 14:43
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As above.

Most offer 'low level' interface cards that allow you to stop and start the unit via a wired switch/relay contacts etc.

The 'high level' interface units are BACnet or Lonworks, both of which require some additional software that talks those protocols, and a big fat wad of cash.

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  Reply # 509038 19-Aug-2011 15:06
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There may be a way of using an IR transmitter like they do for home entertainment systems that share a sky/freeview box to send to other rooms. Just clone the remote signals and send them from a wall plate. A thought.



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  Reply # 509049 19-Aug-2011 15:18
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Yeah, I have a GlobalCache at home for converting IR to IP. Only problem with this for the Heat pump is that the traffic is only one way. I need the heat pump to communicate with the GlobalCache and pass relevant information to my phone such as the On or Off state and the current room temp.

The globalCache also does rs232, so it would be good if I could get my hands on a "low level Interface card" for a heat pump and connect the two. This would give me duplex comms.

I suppose the best bet is to contact the different manufacturers and find out what they have on offer.
I'm surprised this isn't more common. I would pay extra for an IP wifi or wired heat pump with an Iphone app to control it.

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  Reply # 509059 19-Aug-2011 15:36
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Rather than manufacturers contact commercial installers as they probably install these types of systems but on a larger scale (cool stores, data centres etc) and may have a workaround.

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  Reply # 509070 19-Aug-2011 15:56
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Ventura: Rather than manufacturers contact commercial installers as they probably install these types of systems but on a larger scale (cool stores, data centres etc) and may have a workaround.


They do - it's called BACnet. It is the industry standard for interfacing building controls. On a domestic scale it's not worth doing for one when you get start/stop, fault and status out of hard wired interfaces.

I do lots of HLI at work (I work for one of the bigger HVAC controls companies) and it's how it is done.

Typically it's done on a larger scale (like for 30 or 40 indoor units) so the cost per unit is relatively low. For one high wall it's not only impractable cost wise but not something you can feasabily implement yourself.




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  Reply # 509074 19-Aug-2011 16:03
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mcmillgd: Yeah, I have a GlobalCache at home for converting IR to IP. Only problem with this for the Heat pump is that the traffic is only one way. I need the heat pump to communicate with the GlobalCache and pass relevant information to my phone such as the On or Off state and the current room temp.

The globalCache also does rs232, so it would be good if I could get my hands on a "low level Interface card" for a heat pump and connect the two. This would give me duplex comms.

I suppose the best bet is to contact the different manufacturers and find out what they have on offer.
I'm surprised this isn't more common. I would pay extra for an IP wifi or wired heat pump with an Iphone app to control it.


You can get gateways but the cost isn't practical (you can be looking at more than the cost of the unit for just one unit).

At the end of the day you are looking at a refrigeration system with relatively little processing power (i.e. switch on the compressor, switch on the fan). They don't have high power processors and the market is extremely price sensitive.

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  Reply # 509077 19-Aug-2011 16:16
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mcmillgd: Yeah, I have a GlobalCache at home for converting IR to IP. Only problem with this for the Heat pump is that the traffic is only one way. I need the heat pump to communicate with the GlobalCache and pass relevant information to my phone such as the On or Off state and the current room temp.


Surely most heat pumps send out that information via IR? As the heat pump remotes I´ve used have an LCD display on them to indicate the state of the fan speed, set point temp and so on?

Get the 2 way IR codes and off you go

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  Reply # 509091 19-Aug-2011 17:12
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knoydart:

Surely most heat pumps send out that information via IR? As the heat pump remotes I´ve used have an LCD display on them to indicate the state of the fan speed, set point temp and so on?

Get the 2 way IR codes and off you go


Not sure about most, but mine (Fujitsu Inverter approx 4 years old) has an LCD yet is totally one-way. The state on the LCD is 100% controlled by button presses, i.e. remote has no idea what heat pump is doing. After about 0.5s of no key pressing (after some presses), the remote sends a signal to the heat pump to say what state its now in and the HP beeps in acknowledgement. If I try to turn on the heat pump from another room for example (so remote is not within visible range), the heat pump will remain off but the remote will tell you what temp, fan speed etc it is. Bringing the remote back into the room has no effect and turning it off (when it's already off) has no effect either.

This is good as is means cloning the IR signals would not be hard because the heat pump has different on & off signals so you don't really need to know current state and can just override it. Other models *might* have codes more like a TV where the signal is the same for on/off so YMMV.

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  Reply # 509672 21-Aug-2011 19:49
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Just a thought - combine the IR sender with a thermal sensor that you can access via IP. So if you fire a command to turn it on, and after some time the temperature moves to where you want it, then all is well. If the room temp doesn't move then the command has failed.

Bit of a workaround, but for a simple setup this might do what you want it to?

When I got my HP installed I asked the same question and was told the same thing that the other posters here have said - external wired control for heatpumps is possible, but costs big $$s.

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  Reply # 509687 21-Aug-2011 20:24
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Mitsubishi sell an IP based module http://www.bdt.co.nz/aircon/group.aspx?category=7242 - I don't think they are specifically designed for the Domestic market as it nearly costs more than the Air Con itself - we have some working, I think, on the older GB50 models (don't quote me on that though!)

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  Reply # 509688 21-Aug-2011 20:29
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Antzzz: Just a thought - combine the IR sender with a thermal sensor that you can access via IP. So if you fire a command to turn it on, and after some time the temperature moves to where you want it, then all is well. If the room temp doesn't move then the command has failed.

Bit of a workaround, but for a simple setup this might do what you want it to?
.


If you could add in some kind of IP based power indication from the circuit that supplies the heat pump, that would give you a second level of control feedback. Might be a bit crude but would provide a check that the unit is running  Might be cheaper than the full IP route that has already come up here

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  Reply # 509806 22-Aug-2011 09:46
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Handle9:
Ventura: Rather than manufacturers contact commercial installers as they probably install these types of systems but on a larger scale (cool stores, data centres etc) and may have a workaround.


They do - it's called BACnet. It is the industry standard for interfacing building controls. On a domestic scale it's not worth doing for one when you get start/stop, fault and status out of hard wired interfaces.

I do lots of HLI at work (I work for one of the bigger HVAC controls companies) and it's how it is done.


I'm sure I should be doing something else, but....

This is a BACnet gateway.  They cost heaps ($5 - $10k!) and to be honest if someone needs one I've got this laying around, and at least one more in service I want to remove.



The BACnet and Lonworks controllers have a bunch of connection options.  BACnet offers ethernet on board, but Lonworks ($2000 ish) has the same points available, but no onboard ethernet.



And this is a crappy hard wire add in card that actually does most of what people want it to do:
As mentioned above, stop/start/fault/status etc.  1 per unit.  Much cheaper, like $100 - $500 sort of thing.




In all honesty though, you don't want an approved product.  I'd recommend this if I really felt the urge to do this:

http://www.coolautomation.com/coolmaster1000d.html

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  Reply # 509885 22-Aug-2011 12:06
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Antzzz: Just a thought - combine the IR sender with a thermal sensor that you can access via IP. So if you fire a command to turn it on, and after some time the temperature moves to where you want it, then all is well. If the room temp doesn't move then the command has failed.


I started to build one of these a while ago.  The part I got stuck on was recording the IR commands to replay later.  If I finish it I'll publish the design & code.



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  Reply # 509909 22-Aug-2011 12:58
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If you're in wellilngton, you could borrow my GlobalCache and IR receiver to capture the Codes.

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