iPhone Replacement Devices / Consumer Act

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#1567877 8-Jun-2016 12:33

CYaBro:

There is a big difference between a refurbished product and a remanufactured product.

I have seen refurbished iOS devices from many of the online daily deal sites, and places like that.

They are a device that has maybe had a new screen put on it, or a new battery put in it (not by an Apple Authorised Service Provider!), and then some attempt to clean the outside of the device to make it look new.

If I put an Apple remanufactured device and a brand new device in front of you, you would not be able to tell the difference because there is no difference.

If I put a refurbished device and a brand new device in front of you it wouldn't be hard to tell which is which.

(Emphasis added by me)

Really? I feel your post confuses the issue, because on Apples website they use the term "refurbished" but make it sound like you've described 'remanufactured'...(which is a term retailers and consumer shouldn't/wouldnt be subjected to as I believe this is Apples internal process)

See this screenshot from their website today:

I've seen Apple refurbished products before and they are as you describe, with being "Good as new".

I agree that 3rd party refurbished is not necessarily as good, and might have had anything done to make it work.

TranceManNZ

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#1567886 8-Jun-2016 12:44

Refurbished or remanufactured are slightly different but neither are new.
The CGA is pretty clear on this issue and if Apple want to do business in NZ they need to follow the law.

Refurbished phones
A telco may also offer to replace your faulty phone with a “refurbished” one. Refurbished phones are models previously returned to the manufacturer – either because they were faulty or weren’t wanted – and "refreshed" for resale.

Refurbished phones are effectively second-hand and of lesser value. We’ve previously stated a replacement phone should be a new product – not a pre-owned refurbished one. We think this is what the law requires: it states a replacement has to be “identical”. The TDR also considers this to be the case.

surfisup1000

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#1567949 8-Jun-2016 14:42

TranceManNZ: Refurbished or remanufactured are slightly different but neither are new.
The CGA is pretty clear on this issue and if Apple want to do business in NZ they need to follow the law.

Refurbished phones
A telco may also offer to replace your faulty phone with a “refurbished” one. Refurbished phones are models previously returned to the manufacturer – either because they were faulty or weren’t wanted – and "refreshed" for resale.

Refurbished phones are effectively second-hand and of lesser value. We’ve previously stated a replacement phone should be a new product – not a pre-owned refurbished one. We think this is what the law requires: it states a replacement has to be “identical”. The TDR also considers this to be the case.

Your posts are a little confusing - i don't think you can remanufacture a product -- it is a euphemism for refurbished. You can't be reborn either :)

My view on this is simple. While in principle you are entitled to a new device, in practicality it is easier to take the refurbished product which is guaranteed to be of equal quality (and probably better as new screen & battery) as the original.

I recently had my iphone 5s replaced by telecom and they supplied a refurbished phone. It has been good as new (unlike our refurbished ipad from the apple store though).

RunningMan

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#1567997 8-Jun-2016 15:37

TranceManNZ: [snip]. Neither device is brand new as originally purchased.

But your current phone is not brand new as originally purchased, unless this is a DOA situation. Putting aside the fault with your phone, you are asking for something that is better than what you have, not equal to (expect the fault). Why should they replace a used phone with a new one?

CYaBro

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#1568031 8-Jun-2016 16:05

Dairyxox:

CYaBro:

There is a big difference between a refurbished product and a remanufactured product.

I have seen refurbished iOS devices from many of the online daily deal sites, and places like that.

They are a device that has maybe had a new screen put on it, or a new battery put in it (not by an Apple Authorised Service Provider!), and then some attempt to clean the outside of the device to make it look new.

If I put an Apple remanufactured device and a brand new device in front of you, you would not be able to tell the difference because there is no difference.

If I put a refurbished device and a brand new device in front of you it wouldn't be hard to tell which is which.

(Emphasis added by me)

Really? I feel your post confuses the issue, because on Apples website they use the term "refurbished" but make it sound like you've described 'remanufactured'...(which is a term retailers and consumer shouldn't/wouldnt be subjected to as I believe this is Apples internal process)

See this screenshot from their website today:

I've seen Apple refurbished products before and they are as you describe, with being "Good as new".

I agree that 3rd party refurbished is not necessarily as good, and might have had anything done to make it work.

Those devices they sell are different to the remanufactured devices.

For a start they don't remanufacture Mac devices, only iOS devices.

Mac devices would have any faulty parts replaced, so still the same device, with the same serial number.

You can't buy a remanufactured device at all, unless you are returning the same type of device, in exchange for the remanufactured one.

Remanufactured devices have a new serial number and new IMEI number, along with the brand new parts I've mentioned earlier.

The iOS refurbished devices for sale on Apple's website will be ones that have been returned for one reason or another and not because it had a fault.

But they do still replace the housing and battery.

They only have current or very recent models for sale on there but we (as an AASP) can get remanufactured iOS devices from Apple going all the way back to the original iPad, and iPhone 4.

Opinions are my own and not the views of my employer.

mattwnz

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#1568062 8-Jun-2016 16:46

TranceManNZ: Regardless of age the device is still within its warranty period and should fall under the act.
The act states repair, replace or refund. I have given them the opportunity to repair the device and they have chosen to replace.
I was under the impression that refurbished goods are not suitable replacements under the act.

Maybe I am wrong?

I recall consumer doing a story on this very topic, about apple replacing new defective devices, with second hand refurbs, and I recall them saying that it wasn't good enough, and you should ask for a new one. Refurbs are lower value, as a refurb is cheaper to buy than a brand new device. In the case of an iphone, the refurbs are a couple of hundred cheaper on many of these wesbites. Also if you were to resell it, you would have to legally disclose that it was a refurb if someone asked, and they would likely offer less for it. The reputation of a refurb, isn't going to be as good as if it was brand new. Also I would be a little wary of a refurb, as I had an ipad replaced with an refurb by apple, it developed a fault with the screen not long afterwards. You maybe better to ask for a refund under the CGA if they aren't going to replace with new, and then rebuy it. I believe under the CGA , when the fault is substantial, and it can't be repaired, you do have the right to a refund or replacement, and this would be your choice. Only when the fault is minor, is it the retailers choice. Personally it would depdn on the age of the device, as to whether I would accept a refurb. If I had spent $1500 on a new iphone, and it failed withint 3 months, and apple wanted to switch it with a refurb, I wouldn't accept it, and would request a new one, especially as they still make the new ones. But if it was over a year old, I probably would accept the refurb, as I would have had the use of it for a year which has depreciated it's value a bit.

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mattwnz

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#1568076 8-Jun-2016 16:54

Dairyxox:

CYaBro:

There is a big difference between a refurbished product and a remanufactured product.

I have seen refurbished iOS devices from many of the online daily deal sites, and places like that.

They are a device that has maybe had a new screen put on it, or a new battery put in it (not by an Apple Authorised Service Provider!), and then some attempt to clean the outside of the device to make it look new.

If I put an Apple remanufactured device and a brand new device in front of you, you would not be able to tell the difference because there is no difference.

If I put a refurbished device and a brand new device in front of you it wouldn't be hard to tell which is which.

(Emphasis added by me)

Really? I feel your post confuses the issue, because on Apples website they use the term "refurbished" but make it sound like you've described 'remanufactured'...(which is a term retailers and consumer shouldn't/wouldnt be subjected to as I believe this is Apples internal process)

See this screenshot from their website today:

I've seen Apple refurbished products before and they are as you describe, with being "Good as new".

I agree that 3rd party refurbished is not necessarily as good, and might have had anything done to make it work.

It is really impossible for a consumer to know the difference between this, and the difference in quality. eg The 3rd party might argue that their process is as good, if not better than Apples. Do apple actually show what their process is. 'As good as New' is so vague, as it is more of an opinion than based on fact. Only something that is 'new' IMO, is as 'Good as New'

Talkiet

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#1568083 8-Jun-2016 17:00

TranceManNZ: But that is purely cosmetic. Neither device is brand new as originally purchased.
Therefore neither can be used as a replacement product under the consumer law.
I think I might spend the $45 and lodge a complaint with the tribunal.

It appears you are just re-asking the same question in the face of most commenters who believe that Apple's behaviour is quite reasonable, and likely not in breach of any laws.

However, the issues with roaming on service replacement iPhones could drive you mental (But that's a software/licensing screwup that's common - nothing wrong with the service replacement phones per-se)

Please note all comments are from my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.

radomatic

93 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 27

#1568132 8-Jun-2016 17:58

I would think it was perfectly acceptable under the CGA myself.

The device they are giving you is probably better than what you are giving them.

Given how stringent Apple are with testing the remanufactured devices, they are probably better than a new one.

mattwnz

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#1568195 8-Jun-2016 20:16

radomatic:
I would think it was perfectly acceptable under the CGA myself.

The device they are giving you is probably better than what you are giving them.

Given how stringent Apple are with testing the remanufactured devices, they are probably better than a new one.

It isn't going to be better, as it will be a straight swap. Maybe if they were to upgrade the storage it would be more palatable for the op. If they were to sell, it would be third hand, instead of second hand.

radomatic

93 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 27

#1568865 9-Jun-2016 18:27

mattwnz:
radomatic:

I would think it was perfectly acceptable under the CGA myself.

The device they are giving you is probably better than what you are giving them.

Given how stringent Apple are with testing the remanufactured devices, they are probably better than a new one.

It isn't going to be better, as it will be a straight swap. Maybe if they were to upgrade the storage it would be more palatable for the op. If they were to sell, it would be third hand, instead of second hand.

It's going to be better because it will be in pristine, as-new condition, with an unused battery etc etc etc. Show me a phone that's been used for any period of time that could claim to be better than that?

Unless OP has had their phone shrinkwrapped in its box since purchase, then I think it's pretty safe to say the remanufactured device will be in better condition than the one OP is having problems with.

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tripp

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#1569104 10-Jun-2016 07:07

Well best thing to do is just tell apple you will not accept the replacement as you think it is not equal in value to what you purchase your iphone 6s for.

1 of 2 things will happen, they refund or replace with new or you pay your $45 and take it to the DT.

Most companies the size of apple etc will just replace or refund once they get DT papers and work out that they have to send someone who is not a lawyer to a court house to waste 1 or 2 hours (Plus cost of flights, hotel etc if they don't have anyone in the town you are filing papers) only to find out they need to refund or replace.

livisun

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#1569167 10-Jun-2016 09:42

"My exhaust on my 6 month old Porsche is faulty, they wanted to repair it, I wanted a new car instead like for like consumer gaurantees bruh."

Be grateful that you are getting replacement iPhone and they're not just replacing the battery.

I've opened the remanufactured ones from Apple - i could not tell the difference, and have had not as many recalls as ones that were new from the box.

Case closed

Athlonite

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#1569190 10-Jun-2016 10:01

livisun:

My exhaust on my 6 month old Porsche is faulty, they wanted to repair it, I wanted a new car instead like for like consumer gaurantees bruh. Case closed

as it would be a repairable fault and not something like a seized engine or a fire caused by faulty wiring then the CGA states they can repair it, it has to be a substantial fault for a replacement or refund to occur and a faulty exhaust pipe is not an unfixable problem

livisun

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#1569237 10-Jun-2016 10:52

Athlonite:

livisun:

My exhaust on my 6 month old Porsche is faulty, they wanted to repair it, I wanted a new car instead like for like consumer gaurantees bruh. Case closed

as it would be a repairable fault and not something like a seized engine or a fire caused by faulty wiring then the CGA states they can repair it, it has to be a substantial fault for a replacement or refund to occur and a faulty exhaust pipe is not an unfixable problem

So to speak with a battery in this case. its repairable

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