BNZ introducing Apple Pay

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#1880369 10-Oct-2017 14:45

Fantastic!

I've been hanging out for Kiwibank to offer it, but it isn't happening. I'm a foundation customer, but will be using it a lot less and my accounts with BNZ a lot more, once its offered!

Yabanize

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#1880494 10-Oct-2017 17:33

I assume that ANZ had an exclusivity agreement for the first year... Because it launched at ANZ about a year ago

Pumpedd

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#1880567 10-Oct-2017 19:53

Yabanize:

I assume that ANZ had an exclusivity agreement for the first year... Because it launched at ANZ about a year ago

WRONG

Apple would love all banks to have it. The other Aussie banks are refusing on principal. They want Apple to give up exclusive access to their NFC chip code so they can write their own Apple apps. Dreamers!!!

danza

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#1880595 10-Oct-2017 20:20

kinda hard for apple to give the australian banks the control over nfc controller and make things secure without also giving up their secure enclave that's tied into the touchid and pretty much everything else that's supposed to be 'secure' on the phone

from the old ios 10 security guide whitepaper
https://www.apple.com/business/docs/iOS_Security_Guide.pdf

How Apple Pay uses the Secure Element

The Secure Element hosts a specially designed applet to manage Apple Pay. It also
includes payment applets certified by the payment networks. Credit, debit, or prepaid
card data is sent from the payment network or card issuer encrypted to these payment
applets using keys that are known only to the payment network and the payment
applets’ security domain. This data is stored within these payment applets and
protected using the Secure Element’s security features. During a transaction, the
terminal communicates directly with the Secure Element through the Near Field
Communication (NFC) controller over a dedicated hardware bus.

How Apple Pay uses the NFC controller

As the gateway to the Secure Element, the NFC controller ensures that all contactless
payment transactions are conducted using a point-of-sale terminal that is in close
proximity with the device. Only payment requests arriving from an in-field terminal
are marked by the NFC controller as contactless transactions.
Once payment is authorized by the card holder using Touch ID or passcode, or on
an unlocked Apple Watch by double-clicking the side button, contactless responses
prepared by the payment applets within the Secure Element are exclusively routed
by the controller to the NFC field. Consequently, payment authorization details for
contactless transactions are contained to the local NFC field and are never exposed
to the application processor. In contrast, payment authorization details for payments
within apps and on the web are routed to the application processor, but only after
encryption by the Secure Element to the Apple Pay Server.

so it's seems dumb for banks to ask apple for special access to their hardware while it's in banks' best interest to spend as little as possible to come up with a 'competitor' to apple pay or even have it compromised

Pumpedd

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#1881748 11-Oct-2017 09:48

The other part of the problem of course in NZ and Aussie, the banks charge retailers a fee for using paywave even if its a debit card. Crazy ripoff. And, they want Apple to give up their IP.

richms

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#1881837 11-Oct-2017 11:18

The rest of the world has debit card charges too when used as swipe or insert. It's only NZ and au with eftpos that are different.

Richard rich.ms

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danza

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#1881931 11-Oct-2017 12:57

yeah, EFTPOS is a really good system that skip out paying giant card processors like VISA a large amount of fees, also their transactions always felt more instant than going through visa

you can read about how all the non-eftpos stuff works here
https://www.merchantmaverick.com/the-complete-guide-to-credit-card-processing-rates-and-fees/

eg. for a shop to accept visa and alike, one of the cheaper option like square
https://squareup.com/help/us/en/article/5068-what-are-square-s-fees
still charges 2.75%~3.5%

basically NZ and AU had it really good with eftpos while the rest of the world is paying a much higher fee with visa etc, looks like the best thing to do now is to probably just ask apple to support contactless eftpos :v

KiwiSurfer

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#1881946 11-Oct-2017 13:29

danza: yeah, EFTPOS is a really good system that skip out paying giant card processors like VISA a large amount of fees, also their transactions always felt more instant than going through visa

you can read about how all the non-eftpos stuff works here
https://www.merchantmaverick.com/the-complete-guide-to-credit-card-processing-rates-and-fees/

eg. for a shop to accept visa and alike, one of the cheaper option like square
https://squareup.com/help/us/en/article/5068-what-are-square-s-fees
still charges 2.75%~3.5%

basically NZ and AU had it really good with eftpos while the rest of the world is paying a much higher fee with visa etc, looks like the best thing to do now is to probably just ask apple to support contactless eftpos :v

Don't think that would happen. On one hand the big banks are shareholders in the EFTPOS infrastructure and on the other hand they also get lots of money from the interchange fees via Visa/MasterCard. No prizes for guessing which generates the most profit for the banks. From a profit-making perspective it makes more sense for the big banks to cease investing in improving EFTPOS which doesn't generate any returns and focus on switching more transactions to Visa/MasterCard.

I think we're seeing this happen already with EFTPOS pretty much on life support now. The last major improvement to EFTPOS was adding support for chip cards and that was probably only to extend the lifetime of the system. I hear they've done a online EFTPOS thingy but even that is an half-hearted effort. If the banks had their way the system would have been shut down long ago IMHO.

I do think EFTPOS is fantastic and I'm glad the banks has kept it running so long. But I think it has to be acknowledged that the 'free' aspect of EFTPOS may well be its downfall against a competitor like Visa/MasterCard which can actually generate profit for the banks. :(

jat80

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#1883360 14-Oct-2017 13:26

Scheduled outage this weekend by BNZ..

Info here

Preparation for Apple Pay role out?

ALTRON

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#1883361 14-Oct-2017 13:28

“BNZ payWave will also be unavailable during these times, but customers will still be able to make payments by inserting or swiping their card. ”

Possibly, hopefully:)

alasta

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#1883365 14-Oct-2017 13:59

Sounds promising, but I would guess that they might want to do a bit more testing after running the software upgrade before they go live.

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blakamin

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#1883375 14-Oct-2017 15:02

Pumpedd:

The other part of the problem of course in NZ and Aussie, the banks charge retailers a fee for using paywave even if its a debit card. Crazy ripoff. And, they want Apple to give up their IP.

It might be, but 95% (if not more) of AU uses paywave.

I can't think of the last time I couldn't use paywave. Except for very small business mobile transactions like the plumber or the car air con man, even pizza drivers have paywave (if you didn't pay via app)