Apple ordered to unlock phone by court.

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#1495693 19-Feb-2016 15:02

SaltyNZ:
Wade:

Lop the guys finger off, put in evidence bag along with phone, problem solved

Now, if the phone had been an iPhone 5S rather than a 5C, that's probably exactly what they would have done, him being dead and all.

If the phone has been turned off, or it's been can't remember but either 24 hours or 48 hours with only finger print access then typed in access is needed again. Plus finger print access can be turned off in settings. If they were planning forward as they obviously we're with the crushing of two phones they would've thought of that.

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2degrees

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#1496073 20-Feb-2016 08:28

Good point, yes.

iPad Pro 11" + iPhone 15 Pro Max + 2degrees 4tw!

These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.

Benjip

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#1496112 20-Feb-2016 09:43

Also, the finger needs to have a pulse/electricity flowing through it, so you can't chop off someone's finger and use it to unlock an iPhone/iPad with Touch ID (http://mashable.com/2013/09/15/severed-finger-iphone-5s/#6RVZE_aaxiqQ)

Unlike the Mercedes where that exact scenario happened.

sir1963

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#1496342 20-Feb-2016 16:34

Lias:

From what I read <somewhere> it sounded as if the FBI was requiring apple to install a custom firmware on the device, which allowed unlimited attempts at cracking the lock code, without any delay between attempts, without locking out the device or damaging the data, and allowed the lock code attempts to be launched from any connection to the device rather than just the touchpad.

No, it was requiring Apple to write such software and install it. This will take a significant number of man hours of coding and testing.

The Danger in all of this is that the FBI or other agency will forcibly be given access to this code making ALL iPhone vulnerable to attack.

sir1963

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#1496358 20-Feb-2016 16:52

dickytim:

nigelj:

dickytim:

nigelj:

Linuxluver:

I'm trying to tie this story up with what happened when my wife found an iPad at Auckland Airport.

I called Apple and the iPad hadn't been registered by the user. The user also had not enabled Siri so I wasn't able to do the "Who owns this iPad" question by holding down the Home button.

Apple told me to take it to police and have the police call them and they would help the police identify the owner.....presumably by giving the police access to the device.

Two different things, Police can call up Apple and say "We have found a device with serial number XYZ, we need to make reasonable attempts to return this lost property, can you help", Apple can in turn look up Apple IDs that have signed into the iPad recently (especially if said iPad is a trusted device on someone's iTunes account) and contact the owner directly. No 'breaking in' required.

What the FBI are requesting is that Apple replace the copy of iOS on the phone with one that gives the FBI the ability to use a digital lockpick. That is wrong.

I hope Apple can find a way of winning this battle.

Why is it wrong that Apple put this firmware on a specific device of a mass murdering criminal, your moral compass must be really out of whack.

As others have said, it sets a nasty precedent, and it also makes the signed code that made it happen desirable for a lot of people that aren't going to be honest with it if they find a way to possess it.

What stops the FBI asking that Linux distributions carry backdoors to LUKS, Microsoft to code backdoors to Bitlocker, Google defeating their Full Device Encryption mechanism?

Think what you will of me (and know that you are wrong), but my opinion is, if this goes ahead, it's a bad mark for information security which has become critically important.

My comments were a bit harsh and should have been more questioning the collecting moral compass all around when the rights of a criminal supersedes the rights of law enforcement and the people in general.

Would people be happier if Apple (whom I assume can already do this) opened up the phone?

I for one want any information contained in the hands of law enforcement so they can potentially capture more of these scum.

WHICH law enforcement ?

The French, the Turks, Australia, Indonesia, Russia, China ? The countries have all had civilians killed by terrorists.

Do we say that those lives are less important than US ones and deny them access ?

If those lives are less important, do this countries have the right to say US lives are of no consequence in their country, i.e. they have no protection under their laws.

This is NOT about only the US, EVERY government will demand the same access, good governments and bad.

The CURRENT US government may be acceptable, what about future ones ? We already see some presidential candidates saying torture is OK, hell one is suggesting using Nukes in the middle east, we see growing xenophobia , whats next its OK to torture Muslims ? This remind anyone of Europe early last century ? Can we honestly say we trust the US forever ?

gzt

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#1496367 20-Feb-2016 17:22

On the technical level this might be even more complex. FBI says the iCloud password was 'helpfully' reset by the employer. It's a managed phone.

http://gizmodo.com/the-san-bernardino-terrorists-icloud-password-was-accid-1760158613

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MadEngineer

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#1496391 20-Feb-2016 19:44

Well, bugger.

MadEngineer: If they could gain access to the owners email address registered with Apple then they could easily clone the phone from iCloud backup -- assuming the owner used this function and had an email account with a provider happy to give the authorities access.

You're not on Atlantis anymore, Duncan Idaho.

roobarb

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#1496517 21-Feb-2016 12:20

Surely there is a simple solution to the FBI court order, let Apple appeal and let it go to the Supreme Court.

That way, the Republicans, strict constitutionalists that they are, who have been shouting loudest for access to the phone can have an immediate resolution once the next president has been elected and nominated a sufficiently conservative judge to replace the late Scalia.

I am sure that another originalist judge will be happy for further expansion of invasion of privacy by the state on its citizens. Also, the T-party base, calling for limited government, will be demanding for Apple to be forced to comply.

Wasn't it the Magna Carta that said "An Englishman's Phone is his Castle", or perhaps not.

vexxxboy

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#1522169 29-Mar-2016 12:16

after this i would think Apple will be even more upset.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/sci-tech/fbi-breaks-into-iphone-ends-legal-fight-with-apple-1.2835488

Common sense is not as common as you think.

tdgeek

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#1522173 29-Mar-2016 12:30

vexxxboy:

after this i would think Apple will be even more upset.

http://www.ctvnews.ca/sci-tech/fbi-breaks-into-iphone-ends-legal-fight-with-apple-1.2835488

I'll say.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-35914195

How can Apple expect to ask the FBI how they got in, as Apple cannot get into its own phone/OS. So they can block FBI's future access by getting the info from the FBI?

Its also possible that the FBI didnt get in, this is a way to end the stoush, make it go away. And to kick Apple in the shins.

MikeAqua

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#1522180 29-Mar-2016 12:45

Setting aside the specific merits of the case ... what interests me about this is the conflict between a sovereign-state and a company the size of a small country. A lot is at stake.

If Apple is allowed to defy a court order for the country it is domiciled in, then what else can it get away with?

Is the refusal (if allowed to stand) a slippery slope to mega-corporations acting with impunity?

What teeth does the court have? For example: -

- Daily fines?

- Freezing assets?

- Jailing directors and senior execs?

- Would stock exchange rules prevent trading of Apple shares?

Mike

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PhantomNVD

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#1522188 29-Mar-2016 13:13

Looks like DFU mode allows a hacking protocol insertion... Though only shown on an 8gb iPhone4, so this may be 'old' technology by now anyway... Here's the 'Demi' by the Israeli firm mentioned in the article.

http://youtu.be/NFRAy3PyRx4

*edit*

And the relevant article on the firm 'Cellbrite'

http://www.bbc.com/news/technology-35883441

wellygary

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#1522220 29-Mar-2016 14:09

MikeAqua:

Is the refusal (if allowed to stand) a slippery slope to mega-corporations acting with impunity?

Ask Standard Oil and Ma Bell....

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#1522268 29-Mar-2016 15:24

I think Apple helped the fbi unofficially, to get in.

tdgeek

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#1522275 29-Mar-2016 15:31

MikeAqua:

Setting aside the specific merits of the case ... what interests me about this is the conflict between a sovereign-state and a company the size of a small country. A lot is at stake.

If Apple is allowed to defy a court order for the country it is domiciled in, then what else can it get away with?

Is the refusal (if allowed to stand) a slippery slope to mega-corporations acting with impunity?

What teeth does the court have? For example: -

- Daily fines?

- Freezing assets?

- Jailing directors and senior execs?

- Would stock exchange rules prevent trading of Apple shares?

The word from Americans I know, is that the FBI case contravenes the Constitution. You'd have to expect that if Apple was told to by the highest court, they would have to comply. There is a fine line between standing up for ones rights, and arrogance.

I would not be surprised if the FBI did not get access to the phone. If they did they won't tell Apple how. Its their turn to say No

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