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# 82771 5-May-2011 13:18
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Hi There!

I read in a technology article the other day that TomTom have admitted to sending information about users to Police! This includes routing information and speed. This would allow the police to know which areas to target to improve their ticket haul.

I obviously am very concerned about this, and feel it's a breach of expectations, and therefore would prefer to no longer use my tomtom unit procurred 6 months ago. What are the chances I'd have a case for a refund ?

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  # 465716 5-May-2011 13:31
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Your Tomtom is a GPS receiver, isn't it? If this is the case, how does Tomtom (the co.) get at your data?

Regards,
Peter.

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  # 465721 5-May-2011 13:39
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networkn: I read in a technology article the other day that TomTom have admitted to sending information about users to Police! This includes routing information and speed. This would allow the police to know which areas to target to improve their ticket haul.



It's not "information about users". AFAIK there isn't any personal information there. They only supplied location and speeds. They SOLD the data to Dutch police, as they do with anyone else that wants to purchase it.

Beddhist: Your Tomtom is a GPS receiver, isn't it? If this is the case, how does Tomtom (the co.) get at your data?


Some models ("Live") have a GPRS radio inside, to receive updated information on route conditions, and to upload drivers' updates, including speed camera reports, average speed, which is then used to calculate route times when this data is distributed to other TomTom Live devices in the same region.

This service is available in Europe, and New Zealand.  New Zealand data includes AA traffic conditions being transmitted to devices. I have one here.

   




 
 
 
 




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  # 465728 5-May-2011 13:44
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freitasm:
networkn: I read in a technology article the other day that TomTom have admitted to sending information about users to Police! This includes routing information and speed. This would allow the police to know which areas to target to improve their ticket haul.



It's not "information about users". AFAIK there isn't any personal information there. They only supplied location and speeds. They SOLD the data to Dutch police, as they do with anyone else that wants to purchase it.

Beddhist: Your Tomtom is a GPS receiver, isn't it? If this is the case, how does Tomtom (the co.) get at your data?


Some models ("Live") have a GPRS radio inside, to receive updated information on route conditions, and to upload drivers' updates, including speed camera reports, average speed, which is then used to calculate route times when this data is distributed to other TomTom Live devices in the same region.

This service is available in Europe, and New Zealand.  New Zealand data includes AA traffic conditions being transmitted to devices. I have one here.

   


I understand, however, it's still information I would not want transmitted from my device and had I have known in advance would NOT have purchased the device.

I believe that companies who sell data like that have a responsibility to make this VERY VERY Clear on their packaging.  Tucked away in a 9 page EULA isn't that.



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  # 465729 5-May-2011 13:45
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Interesting, I wasn't aware of this feature. That would allow police to target most profitable areas, indeed.

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  # 465753 5-May-2011 14:11
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Correct. But not necessarily personal targets. And obviously they would have to buy it - which would make the fines go up to compensate the cost [/joke]





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  # 465762 5-May-2011 14:17
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Beddhist: Your Tomtom is a GPS receiver, isn't it? If this is the case, how does Tomtom (the co.) get at your data?

Regards,
Peter.


Don't forget when you update via pc it could upload stats

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  # 465767 5-May-2011 14:27
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It would have to upload all of your track points to be useful. I don't think my Garmin does that. Tongue out

 
 
 
 


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  # 465789 5-May-2011 15:16
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I am glad I know this now. I never saw the point in purchasing one of these units and now I know I will not.

Just because it doesn't upload any of your personal information does not mean it isn't still an invasion of privacy.

I'm sure if Google or Apple decided to sell location data the reaction would be spectacular and pyrotechnic.

I will gladly avoid helping the GPS companies to profit and in a small way let them know that this behaviour is not acceptable without letting their users know.

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  # 465799 5-May-2011 15:30
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1080p: I'm sure if Google or Apple decided to sell location data the reaction would be spectacular and pyrotechnic. 


Do you have a smartphone with Google Maps? That's how Google collects the WiFi and cell tower information that is later used in the Google Maps itself or for third parties - for free! - through the Geolocation API.


If you use location-enabled products and services, such as Google Maps for mobile, you may be sending us location information. This information may reveal your actual location, such as GPS data, or it may not, such as when you submit a partial address to look at a map of the area.


That's how Geogense for Windows for example can get your almost exact location without any GPS. 

Microsoft uses mobile data collected by Navizon. Apple is collecting its own data. Every time you open Bing Maps, iPhone Maps or Google Maps your device is collecting information, aggregating it and uploading so that they can then use that for some service or another.

I hope you discard your smartphones now, with your TomTom and Garmin devices... 




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  # 465827 5-May-2011 16:16
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Yep, get rid of your GPS devices, and your smartphones, oh and I think they can track any phones so really they all must go. Your car also keeps electronic data on it that the Police can use so that will have to go as well. No more eftpos or credit card transactions because they can track you that way, oh and pull the plug on your internet because they will find and fine you there as well now. No more walking down the street because the security cameras have facial recognition, gee I think my fridge is watching me...Aaaarrrggghhhhh!!!

Lets all just put tinfoil on our heads and run for the forest!


HA HA

Love my Tomtom, and as I have nothing to hide I don't much care.





Always be yourself, unless you can be Batman, then always be the Batman



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  # 465854 5-May-2011 17:31
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Just for people that missed it
http://blogs.wsj.com/tech-europe/2011/05/03/tomtom-will-tighten-data-sharing-rules/
As a result of the furore, TomTom is working to amend its license agreements to ban police from using its data, a time-consuming task that means the company has to review every existing contract.

For new contracts with governments, rules that bar police from using TomTom?s speed profiles will come into effect within the next two weeks, Mr. Goddijn said.

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  # 466428 7-May-2011 11:49
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If Police really wanted to improve their ticket haul why use this service. Conceivably they could get rough location data from a telco about their customerbase in predetermined areas (damn-it get the data for the whole country). And simply use this to highlight traffic flow/congestion issues.

No personal information needed, simply cellsite derived user locations. Who knows they may be doing it already

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  # 466465 7-May-2011 14:20
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LOL @ the doomsdayers who now want to shy away from TomTom

Police use TT data to set speed camera locations, TT have said locations marked on maps so TT users are providing the information but also semi protected with a pre-warning system

With live data and IQ routes etc the system relies on two way information exchange, if everytime i update my TT online it uploads some amount of data is extracted incorporated into future updates to provide me a better quality product then i am all for it.

I have got nothing to hide so no big deal

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  # 466479 7-May-2011 15:36
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Here's another fun fact, local cops tend to know where people speed. Especially in NZ

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# 466510 7-May-2011 17:24
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blakamin: Here's another fun fact, local cops tend to know where people speed. Especially in NZ


Yeah but in Auckland that is everywhere except when stuck in traffic Tongue out

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