How fast are cellphones to get a GPS location fix?

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rayonline

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#82994 8-May-2011 13:41

I have a Nokia E-75, while it is stilla current phone, it's not that quick to get my position (5-10mins outside stationery). How fast are Nokia and other cellphones in this regard by not using a-GPS?

* I will be oveseas so not paying $30/MB and staying 2 nights per countrys so a $10-20 prepaid simcard is not that worth it.

* I am favouring Nokia because of the OEM offline map. Ie. if you download the Nokia map it has all the POIs included not requiring any computer connection.

Or is the case may be either pay A-GPS or buy a Garmin unit with Garmin maps in each area? I have a Garmin 60Csx with the free promotional map for 2 places but not the 3rd place I am visiting ... althou it is questionable if they were not free would I of bought the map.

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#466880 8-May-2011 19:50

I think something is wrong with your phone or settings.

I have had several Nokia phones including E71, E72, N95, 5800 etc and all have got a GPS fix within 30 seconds 99% of the time.

My current Samsung Galaxy gets a fix within 20 seconds.

Technofreak

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#466887 8-May-2011 20:01

How up to date is your version of Ovi maps. I noticed after the last update on my 5800 that the aquisition time was improved. Typically well less than 30 seconds.

What postioning method options do you have enabled? I have Integrated, Wifi, and network.

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rayonline

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#466909 8-May-2011 21:15

I have all the latest Ovi software and phone firmware etc ..

I have only Integrated GPS enabled. At the location, I won't have a wifi network, nor would I be using a NZ simcard overseas.

I just tried it outside at the yard. Nokia takes 3min to get my location. The Garmin 60Csx takes a few seconds, it was on a few hrs ago .. not sure if that helped it - normally the Garmin takes about 40sec from cold.

I went over to the Nokia.com forum and they said it is not uncommon to wait up to 20mins for a fix.... Or get a bluetooth Nokia GPS unit or go dedicated.

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#466914 8-May-2011 21:28

My iPhone seems to get a fix within 20 seconds when it's unobstructed.

My compact camera, on the other hand, takes two or three minutes but that's probably not a fair benchmark as it obviously lacks the ability to triangulate cellular sites in order to assist the GPS.

freitasm

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#466915 8-May-2011 21:32

rayonline: I have all the latest Ovi software and phone firmware etc ..

I have only Integrated GPS enabled. At the location, I won't have a wifi network, nor would I be using a NZ simcard overseas.

You can wait a long time for a fix if your GPS hasn't been used for a while. After that, if you leave it running for a bit it should be faster in subsequent times. It will also be slow if you move to a location that is a long distance from your last one - in another hemisphere for example.

The WiFi location is not exactly "using" a WiFi connection but rather looking around which WiFi APs are available and their MAC addresses, then using a location API (over a data connection obviously) to determine where you are. That gives you quick location if you are indoors, or while the GPS doesn't get a fix.

That's why Google cars, Google Maps, Skyhook, Navizon, Microsoft Bing Maps, Apple Maps collect location data: to correlate WiFi AP MAC addresses and position.

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#466916 8-May-2011 21:34

Want to see how location API works? If you are using a Windows box, download and install www.geosenseforwindows.com, enable the Location Sensor (Control Panel). Then download their small Google Map application. Make sure you have WiFi on while testing...

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rayonline

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#466918 8-May-2011 21:40

Checked my settings - i don't have access to WIFI - maybe due to the new firmware. I have bluetooth, assisted GPS and network based. But I rather not use network as that is relating to the cell provider (from my research).

That's why my cellphone now works inside relatively quickly, it got a fix outside not too long ago ......

Might look into a nokia bluetooth device.

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#466977 9-May-2011 08:13

I'm not sure a bluetooth GPS receiver will solve your problem. I could be wrong but I think the bluetooth receiver is mainly for use with phones without an inbuilt GPS and for use where it's not possible to mount the phone in a position that allows an unobstructed view of the satellites.

I think you will have a lock on problem with any GPS when you power it up at a location which is quite different to that it was last used or when there has been an appreciable extent of time since it was last used.

This is caused by the GPS unit having to update its almanac in order to know what satellites it is looking for before it can give a position resolution. The acquisition time can be vastly improved by telling the unit where it is. This is why A-GPS among other options are used on phones.

I don't think there is a way to manually input your co-ordinates however as a suggestion I would try doing a search for the location where you are and see if that helps with the lock on time. This is why I think this may help. If we use two locations say Auckland and Wellington with you are located in Auckland. If you do a search for a location in Wellington it will display how far away the Wellington location is. If you then search for your current location you get given a distance from the Wellington location to your current location which is as if the GPS thinks it is at the Wellington location.

Also have a look in the manual to find where on the phone the GPS aerial is located and make sure this part of the phone is upper most giving the best access to the GPS signals which are very small.

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oxnsox

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#467006 9-May-2011 09:33

freitasm:
You can wait a long time for a fix if your GPS hasn't been used for a while. After that, if you leave it running for a bit it should be faster in subsequent times. It will also be slow if you move to a location that is a long distance from your last one - in another hemisphere for example.

This is usually the key issue for a long time to get a position solution. It may take 15mins to get a fix and update the almanac.

And remember to leave the device where it has an unobstructed view of the sky. Leaving it on the balcony (if you're in an apartment/hotel) isn't really sufficient.

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#467033 9-May-2011 10:30

Bluetooth won't fix the problem. That'll just give you a Bluetooth GPS that replicates what you already have in the phone.

rayonline

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#467154 9-May-2011 15:40

So it comes down to ... roaming data or get a new simcard for every 2 days or go dedicated and purchase maps?

What I am after is are there any cellphone on the market that works offline pretty quick from a cold start like a TomTom. I just want to install the map and it has all the POIs. On location if I decide to go there I can look it up and hit go to. I rather not need to carry my laptop and then pay the hotel internet usage per day or head to a internet cafe and wire up my phone (if it's allowed) and add the POIs myself and hit sync and then find I have wasted 2hours..... before I set out.

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Technofreak

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#467160 9-May-2011 15:50

Try my suggestion before you go. I think it will work. I don't think you will need to buy a data plan or sim cards. A dedicated GPS might not be much better either.

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rayonline

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#467229 9-May-2011 18:36

It still takes 3min when I am in a diff suburb. However it is quite fast if I am outside of my home and then I am at the back and reuse it. But I am more interested from cold boot, if I get to the country 1st time, I don't really wanna wait for 5-10mins before I start walking ........

I have my Garmin here, currently it has a free Garmin Asia map on it which I have loaded, it takes 30 sec to get my NZ location althou it's just a basemap as the NZ map is not active right now.

Everytime when I have tried it, the Garmin is faster.

Or with my Navman, it just works. In a moving vehicle it works within 30sec.

I am looking at this item Nokia LD-4W, it is said to be work faster .....
http://www.symbian-freak.com/news/008/02/nokia_ld-4w__know_your_position.htm

The other day I was in the passenger seat - I held the phone next to the window for the entire 10-15min journey and until I got home and upstairs, it was still trying.

I went to someone's backyard right. I had with my the Garmin and the Nokia. Garmin 30sec, Nokia 3min.

oxnsox

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#467235 9-May-2011 18:47

You will still have a delay with any GPS jumping from country to country as you're saying.

To get a fix the GPS refers to an Almanac, which tells the unit which satellites to look for based on the time of day and its approximate location. If you move too many hundreds of miles the unit is looking for the wrong satellites and will eventually start a scan to find any... once its found a couple it will be able to work out a rough fix so know where to look in the almanac (which it constantly updates).

In short you'll probably still have to wait a few minutes no matter what device you use (if you're moving big distances). However some units let you put in a 'seed' position, which it basically giving the unit a rough idication of where you are so it looks at the right almanac information.

The delays you're seeing are probably due more to the processor in your phone being tied up with other tasks, and therefore slower on the initial fix. Whereas a dedicated GPS should be a little quicker as it isn't trying to do anything else.

Technofreak

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#467297 9-May-2011 20:25

Looks like I have to take back what I said about the Bluetooth GPS unit. All the reviews give it a really good write up and the acquisition times are very good.

Another review and comparision with an integrated GPS here.

http://thenokiareview.com/2010/02/16/looking-back-nokia-ld-4w-bluetooth-gps-module-review/

Looks to me that this is probably your answer. It even gives a better battery life for the phone when using the GPS compared to the integrated GPS.

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