Severe Lag Vdsl2 Online Gaming

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Lizard Networks

#1112287 20-Aug-2014 18:10

Helpme6500: C:\Windows\system32>tracert zeus.jetstream.co.nz

Tracing route to zeus.jetstream.co.nz [203.96.91.28]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms slingshot.DSL [192.168.1.1]
2 282 ms 251 ms 83 ms v1.cpcak3-bng1.tranzpeer.net [101.98.0.90]
3 32 ms 32 ms 31 ms ae-5-10.cpcak3-r1.tranzpeer.net [101.98.3.47]
4 32 ms 35 ms 31 ms ae-4-10.cpcak3-r1.tranzpeer.net [101.98.3.46]
5 * * 32 ms ad-cpcak3-r1.tranzpeer.net [101.98.3.163]
6 32 ms 32 ms 32 ms dairynz-dom.akcr8.global-gateway.net.nz [202.50.
234.6]
7 32 ms 32 ms 32 ms g1-1-0-697.akcr8.global-gateway.net.nz [202.50.2
34.5]
8 * * * Request timed out.
9 * * * Request timed out.
10 32 ms 32 ms 32 ms zeus.jetstream.co.nz [203.96.91.28]

Trace complete.

that looks about right..

i do note, you appear to be on a 16ms DLM profile.

for gaming, this is not ideal one bit.

Worth noting, the modem slingshot sends out isnt great for holding the lower profiles, which is why it moves back to try to stay stable.

ild probably call slingshot, and ask them to reset DLM so you can retrain hopefully to DLM-1.

#include <std_disclaimer>

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.

Helpme6500

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#1112997 21-Aug-2014 17:40

hio77:
Helpme6500: C:\Windows\system32>tracert zeus.jetstream.co.nz

Tracing route to zeus.jetstream.co.nz [203.96.91.28]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms slingshot.DSL [192.168.1.1]
2 282 ms 251 ms 83 ms v1.cpcak3-bng1.tranzpeer.net [101.98.0.90]
3 32 ms 32 ms 31 ms ae-5-10.cpcak3-r1.tranzpeer.net [101.98.3.47]
4 32 ms 35 ms 31 ms ae-4-10.cpcak3-r1.tranzpeer.net [101.98.3.46]
5 * * 32 ms ad-cpcak3-r1.tranzpeer.net [101.98.3.163]
6 32 ms 32 ms 32 ms dairynz-dom.akcr8.global-gateway.net.nz [202.50.
234.6]
7 32 ms 32 ms 32 ms g1-1-0-697.akcr8.global-gateway.net.nz [202.50.2
34.5]
8 * * * Request timed out.
9 * * * Request timed out.
10 32 ms 32 ms 32 ms zeus.jetstream.co.nz [203.96.91.28]

Trace complete.

that looks about right..

i do note, you appear to be on a 16ms DLM profile.

for gaming, this is not ideal one bit.

Worth noting, the modem slingshot sends out isnt great for holding the lower profiles, which is why it moves back to try to stay stable.

ild probably call slingshot, and ask them to reset DLM so you can retrain hopefully to DLM-1.

Thanks for the advice, i shall call Slingshot and get back to you after with the outcome.

P.S my router shows alot of errors in the statistics menu, is this a faulty router or is it normal?

https://cdn.geekzone.co.nz/imagessubs/9d623cd500b7675be1b9ac71fb311866.jpg

hio77

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Lizard Networks

#1112999 21-Aug-2014 17:43

Helpme6500:
Thanks for the advice, i shall call Slingshot and get back to you after with the outcome.

P.S my router shows alot of errors in the statistics menu, is this a faulty router or is it normal?

https://cdn.geekzone.co.nz/imagessubs/9d623cd500b7675be1b9ac71fb311866.jpg

is the uptime in seconds or minutes?

#include <std_disclaimer>

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.

kiwikiwi

455 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1113080 21-Aug-2014 19:01

hio77:
Helpme6500:
Thanks for the advice, i shall call Slingshot and get back to you after with the outcome.

P.S my router shows alot of errors in the statistics menu, is this a faulty router or is it normal?

https://cdn.geekzone.co.nz/imagessubs/9d623cd500b7675be1b9ac71fb311866.jpg

is the uptime in seconds or minutes?

if its in seconds its around about 37 hours

You can also follow me on twitter here @kiwifortw I do twitch streams every now and then at twitch.tv/kiwiforthewin :)

HTTP 404 Sarcasm not found.

hio77

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#1113087 21-Aug-2014 19:15

kiwikiwi:
hio77:
Helpme6500:
Thanks for the advice, i shall call Slingshot and get back to you after with the outcome.

P.S my router shows alot of errors in the statistics menu, is this a faulty router or is it normal?

https://cdn.geekzone.co.nz/imagessubs/9d623cd500b7675be1b9ac71fb311866.jpg

is the uptime in seconds or minutes?

if its in seconds its around about 37 hours

OK, so thats about 0.44 CRCs a second, or 26.9 a min.

to hold DLM-1 you need to be sitting on about less than 4CRCs per min.

So its a little on the high side, was there a splitter installed? with a dedicated jackpoint, ran with a fresh bit of cat5e+?

your modem seems to be misreading the delay, so i cant confirm your current profile from there. although your traceroute infers your on a 16ms profile.

#include <std_disclaimer>

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.

Helpme6500

17 posts

Geek

#1113100 21-Aug-2014 19:34

hio77:
kiwikiwi:
hio77:
Helpme6500:
Thanks for the advice, i shall call Slingshot and get back to you after with the outcome.

P.S my router shows alot of errors in the statistics menu, is this a faulty router or is it normal?

https://cdn.geekzone.co.nz/imagessubs/9d623cd500b7675be1b9ac71fb311866.jpg

is the uptime in seconds or minutes?

if its in seconds its around about 37 hours

OK, so thats about 0.44 CRCs a second, or 26.9 a min.

to hold DLM-1 you need to be sitting on about less than 4CRCs per min.

So its a little on the high side, was there a splitter installed? with a dedicated jackpoint, ran with a fresh bit of cat5e+?

your modem seems to be misreading the delay, so i cant confirm your current profile from there. although your traceroute infers your on a 16ms profile.

Sorry but my network knowledge is limited and i dont know what a splitter is, but what i do know is that they installed a 'master jack point' and it says cat5e on the jackpoint.

NZCrusader

646 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1113412 22-Aug-2014 12:38

Quick Fix.

1) Ring or PM an SS rep here.
2) Ask for a port reset at the cabinet.
3) Wait.

VDSL will be reset and hopefully on a better line profile (hope it will remain).

Other options:
1) Get a better router / modem. (Vigor 130, ASUS DSL-N66U or Fritz Box)
2) Check wiring, re-splice or re-cable as needed (may need a line tech for this one).
3) Ask SS if there is anything else they can do from their end to tweak the line / profiles.

NZ / AU Battlefield 4 Gaming Community
http://www.sonsofvalour.net/forums/forum.php

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hio77

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#1113415 22-Aug-2014 12:40

NZCrusader:
3) Ask SS if there is anything else they can do from their end to tweak the line / profiles.

for VDSL, aside from a resetting the port/DLM your ISP cant influence your profile.

#include <std_disclaimer>

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.

Helpme6500

17 posts

Geek

#1113581 22-Aug-2014 17:16

hio77:
NZCrusader:
3) Ask SS if there is anything else they can do from their end to tweak the line / profiles.

for VDSL, aside from a resetting the port/DLM your ISP cant influence your profile.

I rang them up and asked them for a 'DLM reset' and they said they ' dont normally allow this and in most cases it wont fix the problem.'

So yeah i didnt get a DLM reset.

Then i told them that my attenuation was extremely high for upstream 102.3dB and they agreed to that.

They told me to check the DSL wire that goes from the jack point to the modem, i changed that but my attenuation is still 102.3dB for upstream. Then they told me to remove all the other phones connected to the line and test again which i am currently doing.

hio77

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#1113586 22-Aug-2014 17:29

Helpme6500:
hio77:
NZCrusader:
3) Ask SS if there is anything else they can do from their end to tweak the line / profiles.

for VDSL, aside from a resetting the port/DLM your ISP cant influence your profile.

I rang them up and asked them for a 'DLM reset' and they said they ' dont normally allow this and in most cases it wont fix the problem.'

So yeah i didnt get a DLM reset.

Then i told them that my attenuation was extremely high for upstream 102.3dB and they agreed to that.

They told me to check the DSL wire that goes from the jack point to the modem, i changed that but my attenuation is still 102.3dB for upstream. Then they told me to remove all the other phones connected to the line and test again which i am currently doing.

The CSR you spoke to does not know what hes/she is talking about.

VDSL has depending on profiles, up to 3 Upload bands, which come in the higher ends of the spectrum compared to adsl. because the signal attenuates as it gets up there, seeing 100~db on upstream is perfectly fine.

the only attenuation that matters really, for vdsl is your Downstream. If you look at some of the documentation for the fritzbox firmware, there is actually comments next to upstream attenuation saying, this only matters for adsl not vdsl (paraphrased.)

explain to the CSR you are on DLM-8 (it looks like, i cant be 100% sure since your line isnt showing everything correctly.) and "you would like a DLM Reset to try to land on a lower latency profile. Your line got to a high profile, because you were rebooting it alot to try to self Diagnose the Issue."

This is a common issue with CSRs where they don't quite understand DLM. While it will go down, assuming stability, at DLM-8 your talking about a month PER profile move (on average, from experience) Vs with a DLM reset you will probably be down within the week (line quality assumed to be correct for DLM-1)

What they have instructed you to do, is an Isolation Test, which is an important step.

#include <std_disclaimer>

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.

NZCrusader

646 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1113590 22-Aug-2014 17:36

hio77:
NZCrusader:
3) Ask SS if there is anything else they can do from their end to tweak the line / profiles.

for VDSL, aside from a resetting the port/DLM your ISP cant influence your profile.

That's correct, but they can put in a job for Chorus to change the profile.

NZ / AU Battlefield 4 Gaming Community
http://www.sonsofvalour.net/forums/forum.php

hio77

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#1113591 22-Aug-2014 17:38

NZCrusader:
hio77:
NZCrusader:
3) Ask SS if there is anything else they can do from their end to tweak the line / profiles.

for VDSL, aside from a resetting the port/DLM your ISP cant influence your profile.

That's correct, but they can put in a job for Chorus to change the profile.

chorus wont accept jobs to move profiles.. if they did, i wouldnt say no ISP can influence your profile.

Requesting Chorus to do it, is still your ISP influencing it, in my opinion.
Exception being DLM Resets, but thats hardly changing a profile, that strong-arming it.

#include <std_disclaimer>

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.

NZCrusader

646 posts

Ultimate Geek

#1113592 22-Aug-2014 17:38

Helpme6500:
hio77:
NZCrusader:
3) Ask SS if there is anything else they can do from their end to tweak the line / profiles.

for VDSL, aside from a resetting the port/DLM your ISP cant influence your profile.

I rang them up and asked them for a 'DLM reset' and they said they ' dont normally allow this and in most cases it wont fix the problem.'

So yeah i didnt get a DLM reset.

Then i told them that my attenuation was extremely high for upstream 102.3dB and they agreed to that.

They told me to check the DSL wire that goes from the jack point to the modem, i changed that but my attenuation is still 102.3dB for upstream. Then they told me to remove all the other phones connected to the line and test again which i am currently doing.

The upstream attn. is wrong.

I get it as well. Just ignore it. I am getting the full 10 Mbps upload on it as well as around 45 Mbps download.

Just focus on downstream attn.

Also ring again and be adamant that you want your port reset.
Don't back down.

If the CSR wont do it, ask for one that will or PM the Slingshot rep here (Chris I believe).

NZ / AU Battlefield 4 Gaming Community
http://www.sonsofvalour.net/forums/forum.php

hio77

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#1113596 22-Aug-2014 17:46

NZCrusader:
The upstream attn. is wrong.

I get it as well. Just ignore it. I am getting the full 10 Mbps upload on it as well as around 45 Mbps download.

to make this clear, my attenuation is high enough, that the fritzbox wont even list it.

Excuse the small size, Geekzone is trimming images again.

Digging deeper into it,

SNR Margin: 8.4 dB
Attenuation: 6.6 dB
Avg SNR Margin: 9.2 dB
Avg SNR: 40.6 dB

Line Attenuation (LATNpb-0): 3.2 dB
Line Attenuation (LATNpb-1): 11.9 dB
Line Attenuation (LATNpb-2): 20.6 dB

Signal Attenuation (SATNpb-0): 3.7 dB
Signal Attenuation (SATNpb-1): 11.8 dB
Signal Attenuation (SATNpb-2): 20.5 dB

Does not even list it here, but this shows the point i was making about it attenuating as it goes along.

You can see the bands here.

I forget the point inwhich fritzboxes replace a number with dash.

#include <std_disclaimer>

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.

Helpme6500

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#1113617 22-Aug-2014 18:24

hio77:
Helpme6500:
hio77:
NZCrusader:
3) Ask SS if there is anything else they can do from their end to tweak the line / profiles.

for VDSL, aside from a resetting the port/DLM your ISP cant influence your profile.

I rang them up and asked them for a 'DLM reset' and they said they ' dont normally allow this and in most cases it wont fix the problem.'

So yeah i didnt get a DLM reset.

Then i told them that my attenuation was extremely high for upstream 102.3dB and they agreed to that.

They told me to check the DSL wire that goes from the jack point to the modem, i changed that but my attenuation is still 102.3dB for upstream. Then they told me to remove all the other phones connected to the line and test again which i am currently doing.

The CSR you spoke to does not know what hes/she is talking about.

VDSL has depending on profiles, up to 3 Upload bands, which come in the higher ends of the spectrum compared to adsl. because the signal attenuates as it gets up there, seeing 100~db on upstream is perfectly fine.

the only attenuation that matters really, for vdsl is your Downstream. If you look at some of the documentation for the fritzbox firmware, there is actually comments next to upstream attenuation saying, this only matters for adsl not vdsl (paraphrased.)

explain to the CSR you are on DLM-8 (it looks like, i cant be 100% sure since your line isnt showing everything correctly.) and "you would like a DLM Reset to try to land on a lower latency profile. Your line got to a high profile, because you were rebooting it alot to try to self Diagnose the Issue."

This is a common issue with CSRs where they don't quite understand DLM. While it will go down, assuming stability, at DLM-8 your talking about a month PER profile move (on average, from experience) Vs with a DLM reset you will probably be down within the week (line quality assumed to be correct for DLM-1)

What they have instructed you to do, is an Isolation Test, which is an important step.

Well i have done the isolation test and with the other phones connected to the line out and replacing the DSL cable it still is stuck on 102.3dB. So if the router shows wrong numbers i can understand that, but when i played the game with phone lines out and new cable in, after doing the isolation test, i was still lagging in game with a wired connection with no other traffic so their isolation test didn't prove anything. So its either the internal wiring, faulty modem or because of a high DLM profile The CSR's are constantly throwing me back from a DLM reset. How can i contact some ACTUAL technical support people that understand networking terminology because these CSR's are useless, stubborn and don't understand a thing.

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