What's going on with 2 Degrees VDSL?

Forums › 2degrees (including Slingshot, Orcon, Flip, Stuff Fibre, MyRepublic, 2talk and Vocus) › What's going on with 2 Degrees VDSL?

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Lizard Networks

#1703494 15-Jan-2017 12:52

tangerz:

RunningMan:

Faulty filter perhaps? Uncommon but possible

Or something wrong with the run of Cat cable from DM to router? Cable itself maybe? Or socket connection?

personally i too would jump to considering the filter for this particular one.

Recently had an issue where a master filter that had been installed for 5+ years now, had a failure.

issues particularly with upstream were very much alike the OPs.

They can fail sometimes, it is certainly worth a consideration.

Cables definitely, rat eats through it causes issues, but i would expect tests to have already shown that.

#include <std_disclaimer>

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.

erik

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#1704036 16-Jan-2017 12:03

Chorus tech came out today, the same gentleman who had alerted me to the fact that there was a problem to begin with.

He checked filtering and wiring, all okay. He checked the jackpoint, all okay. Turns out, the problem is the Fritz!Box 7490 modem/router that had been provided by 2 Degrees.

Using his measuring tool (which is like a computer by itself), he was picking up 5.5 Mb/s upload whereas the 7490 refused to sync at anything faster than 2.3 Mb/s. So he went to his van and came back with this TP-Link VDSL router, hooked it up and bang .... 5.5 Mb/s upload.

Time for another call to 2 Degrees me thinks.

tangerz

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#1704037 16-Jan-2017 12:08

erik:

Chorus tech came out today, the same gentleman who had alerted me to the fact that there was a problem to begin with.

He checked filtering and wiring, all okay. He checked the jackpoint, all okay. Turns out, the problem is the Fritz!Box 7490 modem/router that had been provided by 2 Degrees.

Using his measuring tool (which is like a computer by itself), he was picking up 5.5 Mb/s upload whereas the 7490 refused to sync at anything faster than 2.3 Mb/s. So he went to his van and came back with this TP-Link VDSL router, hooked it up and bang .... 5.5 Mb/s upload.

Time for another call to 2 Degrees me thinks.

Result!

Good on you for persisting until you got to the root of the problem. Enjoy your extra speed!

erik

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Master Geek

#1704085 16-Jan-2017 13:16

Just rang 2 Degrees, they are still waiting for the tech to update the fault notes in their system to confirm the modem to be faulty. Without that they cannot supply me with a new modem - fair enough.

Thankfully, the tech allowed me to take photos with my phone camera of his equipment read-outs on both the testing device and his TP-Link VDSL router/modem so I have proof that I should be getting 5.5 Mb/s upload instead of the 2.3 Mb/s I'm getting now. That makes me a lot more relaxed in this, as it can't become a "he said", "she said" discussion.

Sorry to sound extremely paranoid but this has been pretty much an on-going debate for over 18 months now and my distrust comes from 2 Degrees initial reaction of "That's too bad, you're too far from the exchange, not our problem, sorry bye." Finally I have proof that shows that I'm not nuts and that I've not been getting what I am paying for.

hio77

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Lizard Networks

#1704388 16-Jan-2017 21:38

erik:

Sorry to sound extremely paranoid but this has been pretty much an on-going debate for over 18 months now and my distrust comes from 2 Degrees initial reaction of "That's too bad, you're too far from the exchange, not our problem, sorry bye." Finally I have proof that shows that I'm not nuts and that I've not been getting what I am paying for.

unfortunately chorus likely informed 2degrees of this.

Often a chorus tech will jump to this, i had a personal case (you can find it in the massive VDSL preformance thread) where a tech informed me my line was too long not that it was a wiring fault.

Connection was actually 127M as the cable ran, getting a solid 70/10 (997 days) once fixed up, up from the 1/2 it would sync at with the dodgy wiring they refused to admit was not up to strach and argued it was the same as using cat5e.

personal case aside, member of gz here had a fault that i have personally gone through, took case over from a previous agent and followed through deeper.

went from "connection is as good as it will get" to lets have a proper look from the network side here (so no techs sent out etc).

Offering a customer next door with 5 times the speed was obviously a clear indicate of hey, here is a connection please compare the two.

Turned out to be a MDF layout case, where one connection was short, the other went way around the block and came in from the other end (maps indicate VDSL rather than sub 5mbit and so on)

As i worked with the chorus tech to come to this conclusion, he went a step further, ran a test that covers a bit more than a LQD, identified possible cases that could be an issue noting it all down and indicating best method forward for the customer.

on the other hand of things, i have seen fritz's go dodgy simply by touching them.. and in the time it takes for them to make their way to snap, the device functions totally fine on the test device.

I will say this however, please don't directly compare two modems to closely(although the range above is rather high), as different chipsets will sync differently. Sounds like your line is likely best suited for a Broadcom linecard (common in TP links).

This is a situation, you will not get an ISP to provide information on, as someone in such a role.. on the job i can not advise a customer is best off with a third party, even if i am aware of the line card and what would best marry up for a perfect sync.

while i'd hope chorus techs could discuss this level of detail with you, truth be told most of the contractors that come out are not taught this sort of thing.

EDIT:

i'm surprised a CPE change was not covered with 2degress through this.

That is often a goto troubleshooting step as, end of the day you as a support agent will cost the customer if you don't atleast try that to look at that. Given this was a repeat task where you had many techs come out, should definitely have been on the options list to look at.

As mentioned above, i had a case of a fritz go dodgy. it happens, Any device can crap the bed, could even be Dead on arrival!

erik:

Thankfully, the tech allowed me to take photos with my phone camera of his equipment read-outs on both the testing device and his TP-Link VDSL router/modem so I have proof that I should be getting 5.5 Mb/s upload instead of the 2.3 Mb/s I'm getting now. That makes me a lot more relaxed in this, as it can't become a "he said", "she said" discussion.

If the tech ran a line state check through the chorus system while the other device was connected, you would also have a direct test that the Rep could compare against.

we can see tests done in the field shown there and pull them up for historical records.

Photos are a great secondary option but in this situation i would personally request the tech does a on field LSD, Tech may not want to give you the ID but it will be there for your agent to look up. Obviously a technical request but when its shown on a test as clear as can be there is no arguing it.

#include <std_disclaimer>

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.

erik

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Master Geek

#1704594 17-Jan-2017 11:46

Well the tech updated the call and listed that the modem is faulty or otherwise not working as advertised.

2 Degrees is sending a new one my way. Will keep you posted.

erik

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Master Geek

#1705964 19-Jan-2017 19:01

Ok received the new 7490 today (it's another 7490)... I plug it in and... sure enough, only 2.3 Mb/s upload.

Should I just buy a TP Link VDSL router myself? I mean, is this a problem with the Fritz!Box in general? The other router from the Chorus tech, as well as the testing device, were syncing at over twice the upload than the Fritz!Box??

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hio77

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Lizard Networks

#1705974 19-Jan-2017 19:08

It is a massive difference, which surprises me.

However as previously stated, different chipsets will sync differently.
Please indicate exactly what model tp link the tech used. I would like to look into the chipset.

#include <std_disclaimer>

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.

erik

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Master Geek

#1706037 19-Jan-2017 19:43

At a second glance, the new 7490 is giving me *slightly* better download and upload speed, so from that angle the swap isn't entirely without merit.

Having said that, here is what the Chorus tech got when he plugged in his handheld into the jack point:

This is the VDSL router he then connected to the jack point, instead of the Fritz!Box 7490 supplied by 2 Degrees:

And when he texted into the TP-Link router, this is what he got:

However, I am now getting this with the new Fritz:

Download: 33.665 kbit/s

Upload: 2.260 kbit/s

Can the chipset or type of router make such a huge difference? I am not seeing things am I?

hio77

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#1706041 19-Jan-2017 19:50

ah yes, a BCM63681, That is a well known solid performer, Although is pretty well beaten out by the newer models given the lack of gbit support.

Check on your fritzbox, the page with the two arrows at what the linecard is, will say Ikanos or Broadcom, i suspect based off your results you may be looking at the later.

#include <std_disclaimer>

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.

erik

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#1706069 19-Jan-2017 20:25

OK, here are the screenshots from the new fritzbox, is that what you are referring to?

Any tips on what I should say to 2 Degrees support? I mean, from their end they'll probably say.. you have a new modem, what's the problem? But unless I'm mistaken, I see an older TP-Link modem achieve twice the upload as the FritzBox, which is consistent with what the tech's handheld device is showing.

I'm sort of at a loss where to go from here really, especially if 2 Degrees only supplies 7490's and that router clearly isn't maximizing my VDSL connection?

hio77

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#1706071 19-Jan-2017 20:32

you may find the the 7390 will preform better on your line, it has a very different chipset (not the 7340/60 that is different again)

Honestly, there is "nothing wrong" with the sync you are getting, if you are trying to min-max though, changing modems is always effective. so from snapdegrees view, they are providing you with a fully working service. May not be the response you want to here, but as someone who works for another RSP i would give much the same response (although in a less casual manor on the job ofcourse!)

I have two lines here, about 10 different modems in my storage. Each modem is handpicked for its chipset for performance against my exact linecard.

Both these are not my RSP provided modem at all.

Personally, i still have a massive love for the fritzboxes, however for DSL broadcom chipsets preform noticeably better in Most cases.

Think back to awhile back, when slingshot first got into the VDSL market, they provided literally the worst VDSL modem in existence. This modem gave so many issues it was not even funny, likely caused more crosstalk than they were worth!

SS however backed these modems until they replaced them (or it was another firmware on them i dont even recall at this point)

#include <std_disclaimer>

Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.

Jase2985

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#1706076 19-Jan-2017 20:34

the problem is your vdsl connection is working, and within spec, there is not much more they can do about it.

erik

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Master Geek

#1706099 19-Jan-2017 21:06

Fair enough - can I get some money back then from my monthly bill? As I'm obviously not receiving the full benefit of the connection provided to me, why should I pay full price?

The Terms and Conditions in my 2 Degrees contract do not contain any clause as to specify what is "in spec" or not so that isn't going to fly. We're not talking about a few percentages here either.
I'm being short changed on half my upload speed!

On the other hand, I have no issue with buying my own modem - what would be your recommendation? The 7390? Or should I look for a newer variant of that TP Link modem?

Jase2985

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#1706146 20-Jan-2017 05:06

erik:

Fair enough - can I get some money back then from my monthly bill? As I'm obviously not receiving the full benefit of the connection provided to me, why should I pay full price?

The Terms and Conditions in my 2 Degrees contract do not contain any clause as to specify what is "in spec" or not so that isn't going to fly. We're not talking about a few percentages here either.
I'm being short changed on half my upload speed!

On the other hand, I have no issue with buying my own modem - what would be your recommendation? The 7390? Or should I look for a newer variant of that TP Link modem?

Lol, no, there is no official minimum spec but generally if its less than about 15 down and 1 up they will switch tou back to ADSL.

you are getting the full benefit of your connection because its its been checked and there are no faults with the lines or your wiring and its going as fast as the modem allows.

if by your logic, because im getting 70 down and 30 up you should be paying a hell of a lot less than me.

Its all charged per connection, not how fast you get. so you could be getting 15/1 and you still pay the same as someone getting 100/50 (yes its possible).

you can get another modem but there is no guarantee that you will get a faster connection.

VDSL and to an extent ADSL are fickle things, and sensitive to change and external conditions and sometimes for no reason you loose speed and its generally very hard to get it back.

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