I've had my fill of Orcon

Forums › 2degrees (including Slingshot, Orcon, Flip, Stuff Fibre, MyRepublic, 2talk and Vocus) › I've had my fill of Orcon

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#394040 20-Oct-2010 16:08

Daylo: I just HAD to link it ....

http://xkcd.com/806/

Yeah that'd be right sounds just like every tech sup call I've ever made to Orcon

kiwipawl

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#394072 20-Oct-2010 17:39

VicBStard:
boby55: Being on the Kapiti Coast are you in range for Telstra Clear Cable service?

Apparently not, unfortunatly. But I am thinking of switching to Telstra's telecom infrastructure plan to see if they can give me a striaght answer regarding my internet speed.

and you you think its going to be any better? I hope you can speak Philippino.

arthurhh

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#394092 20-Oct-2010 18:21

VicBStard:
VicBStard: Doh.

Yes I'am, as I have been doing for the last few weeks.

Sorry, it's easy to get sarcastic on forums. You guys have given me a better insight to what is probably happening than Orcon have.

But, also, I'm actually pretty technically competent. I know that there is no point in moaning able a situation if you are not helping yourself. I've been using the Orcon test utility overnight and all day today.

I'm only really annoyed that Orcon has repeatable failed to call me back or let me know what is actually going on. I know that they are at the mercy of Telecom, but that is not my problem- if they can't offer a decent service and work with Telecom, it's not my problem, they just shouldn't be in the business.

Even if I get exactly the same issue with another ISP, I'm getting to the point that I don't really want to give Orcon any more of my money.

Their customer service does not live up to their advertising, which suggests that they are serving the more discerning internet user. I'm ashamed to say, but I think that if Orcon went under it'd put a smile on my face. Slack outfits like this don't deserve to survive at a time when hard working people are losing everytyhing.

Having been fighting my own battle with Orcon since Telecom cabinetised my area, I can say what ever you do, either join Telecom or a ISP that doesnt back haul via telecom.
Telecom are shaping the traffic on all other ISP hand over points and your speed will be crap under peak peak load and substandard under normal load. Till Telecom are forced to deliver the same level of traffic to competing ISP's as there own it will continue since the legal process is long and protracted for the independant ISP's.
Write to the Telecommunications Minister point out your issues it can only help since ultimately he is in charge of Orcon.

http://tokoroaweatherlive.net

old3eyes

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#394098 20-Oct-2010 18:54

Minister of Telecommunications?? I thought he died when the NZPO died ..

Regards,

Old3eyes

Ragnor

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#394125 20-Oct-2010 20:18

arthurhh:

Telecom are shaping the traffic on all other ISP hand over points and your speed will be crap under peak peak load and substandard under normal load. Till Telecom are forced to deliver the same level of traffic to competing ISP's as there own it will continue since the legal process is long and protracted for the independant ISP's.
Write to the Telecommunications Minister point out your issues it can only help since ultimately he is in charge of Orcon.

If you are connected to Telecom wholesale gear both Telecom Retail and Orcon (or any ISP selling Telecom wholesale services) can sell you a range of ADSL options which are effectively the same thing provided by Telecom wholesale (UBS, UBA, EUBA etc), these are actually already regulated by commerce commission.

Some of the core differences between the service via Orcon vs Telecom is that that Telecom handover at 29 locations and Orcon at 3 (iirc), also Orcon has different customer demographics (lots of younger heavy users, not as many mom and pop users to balance things out).

So yes Telecom is offering superior performance currently and Orcon has handover congestion - however blaming "Telecom shaping" is not really correct.

tardtasticx

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#394141 20-Oct-2010 20:42

Well I actually like dealing with Orcon. It's nice talking to a New Zealander. I haven't had many problems with them so I've only had to call twice, and those 2 calls were about billing and were made withen like a week of getting set up. The people seem genuinely nice and interested. Nice talking to them

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arthurhh

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#394174 20-Oct-2010 22:56

Ragnor:
arthurhh:

Telecom are shaping the traffic on all other ISP hand over points and your speed will be crap under peak peak load and substandard under normal load. Till Telecom are forced to deliver the same level of traffic to competing ISP's as there own it will continue since the legal process is long and protracted for the independant ISP's.
Write to the Telecommunications Minister point out your issues it can only help since ultimately he is in charge of Orcon.

If you are connected to Telecom wholesale gear both Telecom Retail and Orcon (or any ISP selling Telecom wholesale services) can sell you a range of ADSL options which are effectively the same thing provided by Telecom wholesale (UBS, UBA, EUBA etc), these are actually already regulated by commerce commission.

Some of the core differences between the service via Orcon vs Telecom is that that Telecom handover at 29 locations and Orcon at 3 (iirc), also Orcon has different customer demographics (lots of younger heavy users, not as many mom and pop users to balance things out).

So yes Telecom is offering superior performance currently and Orcon has handover congestion - however blaming "Telecom shaping" is not really correct.

Each to there own, but my problems only commenced at Telecoms cabinet program live date in my area, and my 12 year relationship with Orcon allows me a little scope to talk to people in better positions than Help Desk.

http://tokoroaweatherlive.net

arthurhh

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#394177 20-Oct-2010 23:00

Ragnor:
arthurhh:

Telecom are shaping the traffic on all other ISP hand over points and your speed will be crap under peak peak load and substandard under normal load. Till Telecom are forced to deliver the same level of traffic to competing ISP's as there own it will continue since the legal process is long and protracted for the independant ISP's.
Write to the Telecommunications Minister point out your issues it can only help since ultimately he is in charge of Orcon.

If you are connected to Telecom wholesale gear both Telecom Retail and Orcon (or any ISP selling Telecom wholesale services) can sell you a range of ADSL options which are effectively the same thing provided by Telecom wholesale (UBS, UBA, EUBA etc), these are actually already regulated by commerce commission.

Some of the core differences between the service via Orcon vs Telecom is that that Telecom handover at 29 locations and Orcon at 3 (iirc), also Orcon has different customer demographics (lots of younger heavy users, not as many mom and pop users to balance things out).

So yes Telecom is offering superior performance currently and Orcon has handover congestion - however blaming "Telecom shaping" is not really correct.

So why did the issue arise when Telecom started the cabinet program, why does all the testing show the issue to be at the hand over point, and Com Com have not regulated on this it is still in initial stages of investigations and will take a year or more for them to rule on.

I have tested numerous connections from various suppliers in my area, in all case if the ISP backhauls from Telecom it is crap, if they have there own non Telecom backhaul it works great.

This is all about Telecom wanting to maintain dominance, they have never separated the ISP side, it is a Basic business within the main stream of thier organization, lets face it they tried a separation plan (Not yet implemented) to get into the new Govt sponsored scheme, it was seen through and they lost out as far as I can see they are being obstructive and attempting to force consumers like me to go to them to get an continuation of service at acceptable levels. Can you say Anti Competitive Action, by obstruction and obfuscation (Shades of Teresa Gatung and the confuse the customer policy)

http://tokoroaweatherlive.net

arthurhh

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#394179 20-Oct-2010 23:02

tardtasticx: Well I actually like dealing with Orcon. It's nice talking to a New Zealander. I haven't had many problems with them so I've only had to call twice, and those 2 calls were about billing and were made withen like a week of getting set up. The people seem genuinely nice and interested. Nice talking to them

Agree a local call center is nice but it is severely limited when dealing with issues like this since it is outside there pay grade

http://tokoroaweatherlive.net

Daylo

123 posts

Master Geek

#394275 21-Oct-2010 09:33

(this is not a rant against you arthur)

It's only nice when they know what the hell is going on, which is rare. Oh yes, I really enjoyed getting told "nicely" to run an isolation test so many frikking times it drove me insane. And nicely told that "the problem must be at your end".
The problem was so much so at my end that when I changed to Telecom, every problem I ever had with Orcon disappeared. Enough said. I rant too much. I'm on a crusade against Orcons slack performance. Sue me. They aged me.

:D

Ragnor

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#394603 22-Oct-2010 00:36

arthurhh:

So why did the issue arise when Telecom started the cabinet program

Few things:

The labour government gave Telecom a legal obligation in their separation undertaking to achieve 80% of connections >10Mbit sync rate, this lead to Telecom's cabinet program.

You can't stay connected to the exchange when your area gets cabineted because of mid span injection issues, basically the stronger signals from the cabinet drown out the weaker signals from the exchange in the bundle of lines.

Orcon have not taken up sub loop unbundling and intstalled their own gear in the cabinets because the of pricing set by the ComCom.

Also Orcon's backhaul supplier for the Orcon+ network is Vector or FX networks usually, they haven't built fibre to the cabinets.

arthurhh:

Why does all the testing show the issue to be at the hand over point,

Backhaul and handover are two different things. If you are on a cabinet you probably have practically no backhaul issues until you get to the first handover point. If your ISP has handover links there, handover links may be an issue depending on the ISP. If your ISP doesn't have handoverlinks there there is more backhaul from that point to where the ISP does have handover links.

Handover links are a big issue for ISP's with lots of heavy users, Orcon could do more ie: handover at more regional locations and distribute the load/congestion.

Telecom in the 90's and early 00's did appear to be sitting around not doing much but in recent years they have been spending a truckload on infrastructure and complying with separation undertakings.

At the end of the day they own the majority of network legitimately and a being forced to comply with some fairly strict regulation that didn't exist back when the network was sold.

Improvements haven't happened overnight but have been happening.

Blame Telecom is an easy excuse for a lot of people/isp's/csr's.. sometimes it's right.. sometimes it isn't and sometimes it's a bit of both.

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Athlonite

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#394733 22-Oct-2010 12:19

Personally I blame Orcon and it's push for even more customers on already well oversubscribed systems they either need to put up or shut up (advertising) as it is getting so bad now that I can't even stream an vid from TVNZ without it constantly stopping to buffer no matter what time of day or night or early hours of the morning...

If i could get a better deal anywhere elsewhere I'd be gone in an instant

VicBStard

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#395314 24-Oct-2010 19:29

That's it.

I spoke to Orcon yesterday to ask what was going on and was told that that there is a note for someone to call me to tell me I'm on an ADSL line. No s***, Sherlock. I knew that, already and it doesn't explain why my speeds bounced to 3mb/s at the beginning of last week but now I'm back done to 1mb/s. Someone was supposed to call me today and, surprise, surprose they haven't.

My connection is being throttled and I'm my speed is not fit for the purpose that I need it for.

Telecom are offering me the same deal as Orcon for virtually the same price and I'm gonna take it.

As an aside, I know someone that went for a job at Orcon, who told me what an unproffesional bunch of jokers. With a bit off luck the outfit's days are numbered.

Orcon, blow me.

Vic.

[Moderator edit (MF): removed personal attacks, name calling. This is not acceptable here]

freitasm

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#395324 24-Oct-2010 19:58

I've edited the previous. No personal attacks, no name calling.

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VicBStard

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#395359 24-Oct-2010 22:50

freitasm: I've edited the previous. No personal attacks, no name calling.

That's fair enough. It's difficult not to get angry with Orcon. But you only have to look at the huge amount of views that the Orcon section of this site gets to see that the firm has issues.

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