2degrees: Changes to IP Addresses (CGNAT)

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#2384680 3-Jan-2020 17:20

sbiddle: They give you a public IP for free if you ask, so things are no different to what they were previously

Does that apply to new customers though?

hio77: Given 2d offer such a sharp price, is it really too much to throw an extra tena at it for the service you want?

Adding that $10 dulls the deal by a fair amount, especially if you're thinking past the 12 month promo period.

Compared to a similar offer from a competitor: 2degrees (with static IP) would cost $40 more in the first year, and $20/mo more after that. If you factor in prime video at cost, there is a saving for 12 months, but it's gone once you've paid for the 13th month.

rm *

demeter23

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#2384690 3-Jan-2020 17:27

Just a quick update on my situation with this. I did speak to 2D again, explained my situation (and that I noticed conflicting IP addresses), and asked how it could be resolved/what the issue was. They subsequently offered me a complimentary static IP address. I would have been happy with a dynamic public IP, but fair play to them giving me a static one. I had a bill through a couple of days ago with the static IP itemised and credited.

Aside from this, very impressed with the 2D service (coming from Stuff Fibre). Would certainly recommend.

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#2384696 3-Jan-2020 17:39

Detruire:
sbiddle: They give you a public IP for free if you ask, so things are no different to what they were previously

Does that apply to new customers though?

hio77: Given 2d offer such a sharp price, is it really too much to throw an extra tena at it for the service you want?

Adding that $10 dulls the deal by a fair amount, especially if you're thinking past the 12 month promo period.

Compared to a similar offer from a competitor: 2degrees (with static IP) would cost $40 more in the first year, and $20/mo more after that. If you factor in prime video at cost, there is a saving for 12 months, but it's gone once you've paid for the 13th month.

Only if your chasing the dollar...

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sha256

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#2385008 4-Jan-2020 15:29

sbiddle:
sha256:

This CG-NAT business is a real shame. I was thinking about taking advantage of the on-line offers at the moment to move to 2degrees but CG-NAT implementation is big enough an issue to pass on a great price. I hope 2degrees realise they lost at least one potential customer here (and couple of others I have steered away) for the sake of being stingy on IPv4.

What was your real reason for not going with them or recommending them? Because it can't be the CG-NAT issue (because tha's not actually an issue).

They give you a public IP for free if you ask, so things are no different to what they were previously, and they also have one of the best prices in the market right now.

You may deem it "being stingy" but the simple reality is that unlike the past 10 years or so where people have warned of impending doom of IPv4 exhaustion, we are now actually at that point. Late last year RIPE issued it's last remaining IPv4, and in this part of the world APNIC had 18% of their last /8 remaining and you can only buy this in a /23. IPv4 address space is now incredibly short and going for big $$$ on the resale market.

You may disagree with CG-NAT but the simple fact is for 99% of users it has zero impact to their Internet experience.

CG-NAT is a real issue as I am a somewhat an advanced user that has an OpenVPN server at home that requires a public IP. My situation is that I pay $98 on Skinny for unlimited fibre gig plan per month. So when I add an extra $10 to the $85 discounted plan I am almost back at where I am. Except 2deg price will go further up after the first year.

So I realise why they're able to offer the discount - savings on not paying for a scarce resource. For those that say it is free, my issue is it is anecdotal and subject to 2deg discretion. I have to sign a one year contract on the blind faith that 2degres may give me a public IP after I plead/complain. Don't feel comfortable swapping from my out of contract plan.

I steered the others away because they are family and friends who I help out with IT issues and if I recommended 2degrees and it broke something they have come to depend on, I look like the guy who made a poor recommendation.

2degrees are making an aggressive play here with the discount + cash back + Amazon TV, but man CG-NAT ruins this for me.

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#2385096 4-Jan-2020 17:21

@sha256 We get it - you're an advanced user. Others are not though.

Your friends / family likely wouldn't even notice. Services will still work fine. The only thing that will stop working is explicit port-forwards (eg - dodgy security cameras, on-premises servers etc) and I say they're better without it from a security point of view. Gaming and other online activities will work totally fine and this is one of the reasons I still continue to support and recommend 2degrees.

You could phone up before you sign up and simply ask them if they'll provide an external IP if you join them - doesn't hurt to ask.

Personally even with the static IP fee of $10 per month (note - this also comes with a static /56 IPv6 block) I'd rather have a static + the ability to use whatever router I desire (and still have support) + better peering over Skinny who enforce their own router if you want support and only provide a dynamic IP address and no IPv6. $98 vs 2degrees at $110 (provided you have a mobile with them) for much more is very little cost difference over the course of a month.

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#2385170 4-Jan-2020 21:18

sha256: CG-NAT is a real issue as I am a somewhat an advanced user that has an OpenVPN server at home that requires a public IP. My situation is that I pay $98 on Skinny for unlimited fibre gig plan per month. So when I add an extra $10 to the $85 discounted plan I am almost back at where I am. Except 2deg price will go further up after the first year.

So I realise why they're able to offer the discount - savings on not paying for a scarce resource. For those that say it is free, my issue is it is anecdotal and subject to 2deg discretion. I have to sign a one year contract on the blind faith that 2degres may give me a public IP after I plead/complain. Don't feel comfortable swapping from my out of contract plan.

I steered the others away because they are family and friends who I help out with IT issues and if I recommended 2degrees and it broke something they have come to depend on, I look like the guy who made a poor recommendation.

2degrees are making an aggressive play here with the discount + cash back + Amazon TV, but man CG-NAT ruins this for me.

As per Michael's reply. You have specific requirements and therefore you can decide to use another provider based on these and the total price. Surely you would check requirements and constraints for your family/friends before doing a recommendation (like a good consultant would) and if they aren't affected by the service features, why not give them the chance of a discount?

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sha256

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#2385325 5-Jan-2020 11:36

michaelmurfy:

better peering over Skinny who enforce their own router if you want support

True with regards to the router - however I do use my own router and their service is reliable enough I have never had to call support.

It is interesting about what you said about peering though. The two major hubs out of NZ for us are Sydney and US West Coast (California). I guess it is safe to say most local ISPs have good bandwidth to Sydney.

My primary concern is capacity to US where most of the major Internet services are located. A quick look at peeringdb show that Skinny (Spark) peer with Equinix data centers in US and 2degrees with CoreSite. How do you determine which is better really?

Out of curiosity, which cable does 2degrees use to get to USA? Thanks.

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#2385326 5-Jan-2020 11:41

sha256:

michaelmurfy:

better peering over Skinny who enforce their own router if you want support

True with regards to the router - however I do use my own router and their service is reliable enough I have never had to call support.

It is interesting about what you said about peering though. The two major hubs out of NZ for us are Sydney and US West Coast (California). I guess it is safe to say most local ISPs have good bandwidth to Sydney.

My primary concern is capacity to US where most of the major Internet services are located. A quick look at peeringdb show that Skinny (Spark) peer with Equinix data centers in US and 2degrees with CoreSite. How do you determine which is better really?

Out of curiosity, which cable does 2degrees use to get to USA? Thanks.

peering in @michaelmurfy's mind = peering with cloudflare in auckland.

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sha256

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#2385330 5-Jan-2020 11:55

Did a quick traceroute to comcast.com and the results are quite decent. Hitting US in about 130ms, then to East coast in around 200ms (granted it is Comcast routing from CA).

Would love to see a traceroute to comcast.com from a 2degrees user as well. Thank you.

[code]Tracing route to comcast.com [69.252.80.75]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms 10.0.0.138
2 2 ms 1 ms 2 ms 125-239-200-1-adsl.sparkbb.co.nz [125.239.200.1]
3 1 ms 1 ms 1 ms 222.152.41.161
4 2 ms 2 ms 2 ms 122.56.113.4
5 2 ms 1 ms 1 ms ae7-2.akbr7.global-gateway.net.nz [122.56.119.53]
6 3 ms 2 ms 2 ms ae10-10.tkbr12.global-gateway.net.nz [202.50.232.29]
7 127 ms 127 ms 127 ms xe2-3-1.lebr7.global-gateway.net.nz [122.56.127.22]
8 133 ms 133 ms 133 ms ae3-10.sjbr3.global-gateway.net.nz [122.56.127.25]
9 134 ms 134 ms 133 ms ae0.pabr5.global-gateway.net.nz [203.96.120.74]
10 133 ms 133 ms 134 ms 64.125.37.153
11 134 ms 134 ms 134 ms ae4.mpr2.pao1.us.zip.zayo.com [64.125.27.191]
12 145 ms 162 ms 136 ms ae5.cs2.sjc2.us.eth.zayo.com [64.125.31.16]
13 139 ms 138 ms 139 ms ae27.cr2.sjc2.us.zip.zayo.com [64.125.30.233]
14 134 ms 134 ms 134 ms ae16.mpr4.sjc7.us.zip.zayo.com [64.125.31.15]
15 139 ms 138 ms 139 ms be-204-pe01.9greatoaks.ca.ibone.comcast.net [75.149.228.133]
16 136 ms 137 ms 137 ms be-12544-cr01.9greatoaks.ca.ibone.comcast.net [68.86.87.149]
17 145 ms 144 ms 144 ms be-11525-cr02.losangeles.ca.ibone.comcast.net [68.86.84.149]
18 180 ms 181 ms 180 ms be-11523-cr01.houston.tx.ibone.comcast.net [68.86.87.174]
19 190 ms 189 ms 189 ms be-11423-cr02.56marietta.ga.ibone.comcast.net [68.86.85.21]
20 189 ms 189 ms 190 ms be-1202-cs02.56marietta.ga.ibone.comcast.net [96.110.32.73]
21 188 ms 188 ms 188 ms be-1211-cr11.56marietta.ga.ibone.comcast.net [96.110.32.10]
22 206 ms 205 ms 207 ms be-301-cr11.ashburn.va.ibone.comcast.net [96.110.32.2]
23 200 ms 199 ms 200 ms be-1411-cs04.ashburn.va.ibone.comcast.net [96.110.32.117]
24 198 ms 197 ms 198 ms be-1402-cr02.ashburn.va.ibone.comcast.net [96.110.32.182]
25 201 ms 201 ms 201 ms be-7922-ar03.newcastle.de.panjde.comcast.net [68.86.94.250]
26 208 ms 209 ms 209 ms ae100-ur11-d.newcastlerdc.de.panjde.comcast.net [68.85.158.90]
27 207 ms 207 ms 207 ms urlrw01.cable.comcast.com [69.252.80.75][/code]

Andib

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#2385334 5-Jan-2020 12:04

sha256:

Did a quick traceroute to comcast.com and the results are quite decent. Hitting US in about 130ms, then to East coast in around 200ms (granted it is Comcast routing from CA).

Would love to see a traceroute to comcast.com from a 2degrees user as well. Thank you.

Pretty similar result from a 2Deg ufb connection.

Tracing route to comcast.com [69.252.80.75]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 3 ms <1 ms <1 ms FRITZ-NAS [192.168.1.1]
2 4 ms 5 ms 23 ms 43.7.69.111.static.snap.net.nz [111.69.7.43]
3 * * * Request timed out.
4 126 ms 126 ms 126 ms ip4.gtt.net [173.205.37.2]
5 127 ms 127 ms 126 ms et-0-0-23-0-200.cr3-lax2.ip4.gtt.net [173.205.37.1]
6 126 ms 126 ms 126 ms et-0-0-67.cr4-lax2.ip4.gtt.net [89.149.140.77]
7 126 ms 126 ms 126 ms be-206-pe01.losangeles.ca.ibone.comcast.net [173.167.58.201]
8 127 ms 128 ms 128 ms be-11599-cr02.losangeles.ca.ibone.comcast.net [68.86.84.193]
9 160 ms 165 ms 158 ms be-11523-cr01.houston.tx.ibone.comcast.net [68.86.87.174]
10 173 ms 173 ms 171 ms be-11423-cr02.56marietta.ga.ibone.comcast.net [68.86.85.21]
11 172 ms 171 ms 171 ms be-1302-cs03.56marietta.ga.ibone.comcast.net [96.110.32.77]
12 174 ms 175 ms 171 ms be-1311-cr11.56marietta.ga.ibone.comcast.net [96.110.32.14]
13 187 ms 187 ms 186 ms be-301-cr11.ashburn.va.ibone.comcast.net [96.110.32.2]
14 187 ms 186 ms 188 ms be-1211-cs02.ashburn.va.ibone.comcast.net [96.110.32.109]
15 187 ms 186 ms 188 ms be-1202-cr02.ashburn.va.ibone.comcast.net [96.110.32.174]
16 190 ms 190 ms 190 ms be-7922-ar03.newcastle.de.panjde.comcast.net [68.86.94.250]
17 232 ms 201 ms 196 ms ae100-ur11-d.newcastlerdc.de.panjde.comcast.net [68.85.158.90]
18 203 ms 197 ms 211 ms urlrw01.cable.comcast.com [69.252.80.75]

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Benoire

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#2385335 5-Jan-2020 12:04

2degrees 100/20 fibre connection in Auckland. Network is Unifi based, with fully wired network and access points. Done from a wired connection.

tracert comcast.com
Tracing route to comcast.com [69.252.80.75]
over a maximum of 30 hops:

1 <1 ms <1 ms <1 ms usg.waxery.com [192.168.1.1]
2 6 ms 8 ms 6 ms 43.7.69.111.static.snap.net.nz [111.69.7.43]
3 * * * Request timed out.
4 130 ms 126 ms 126 ms ip4.gtt.net [173.205.37.2]
5 129 ms 130 ms 129 ms et-0-0-23-0-200.cr3-lax2.ip4.gtt.net [173.205.37.1]
6 141 ms 127 ms 129 ms et-0-0-53.cr4-lax2.ip4.gtt.net [213.254.230.250]
7 129 ms 131 ms 130 ms be-206-pe01.losangeles.ca.ibone.comcast.net [173.167.58.201]
8 127 ms 131 ms 130 ms be-11599-cr02.losangeles.ca.ibone.comcast.net [68.86.84.193]
9 163 ms 161 ms 163 ms be-11523-cr01.houston.tx.ibone.comcast.net [68.86.87.174]
10 174 ms 175 ms 173 ms be-11423-cr02.56marietta.ga.ibone.comcast.net [68.86.85.21]
11 177 ms 173 ms 175 ms be-1302-cs03.56marietta.ga.ibone.comcast.net [96.110.32.77]
12 172 ms 173 ms 175 ms be-1311-cr11.56marietta.ga.ibone.comcast.net [96.110.32.14]
13 188 ms 190 ms 186 ms be-301-cr11.ashburn.va.ibone.comcast.net [96.110.32.2]
14 188 ms 190 ms 190 ms be-1211-cs02.ashburn.va.ibone.comcast.net [96.110.32.109]
15 190 ms 190 ms 190 ms be-1202-cr02.ashburn.va.ibone.comcast.net [96.110.32.174]
16 191 ms 193 ms 190 ms be-7922-ar03.newcastle.de.panjde.comcast.net [68.86.94.250]
17 198 ms 197 ms 199 ms ae100-ur11-d.newcastlerdc.de.panjde.comcast.net [68.85.158.90]
18 197 ms 199 ms 198 ms urlrw01.cable.comcast.com [69.252.80.75]

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sha256

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#2385336 5-Jan-2020 12:09

Thanks for the traceroute results. It appears the latency is pretty much the same and good to know 2deg doesn't do silly things like route via Sydney to US.

hio77

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#2385358 5-Jan-2020 12:45

sha256:
Thanks for the traceroute results. It appears the latency is pretty much the same and good to know 2deg doesn't do silly things like route via Sydney to US.

Not really that silly. Likely find 2d simply have layer 2 through to their pop in lax.

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Dochart

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#2392235 14-Jan-2020 22:42

For those of you who have requested to opt out of CGNAT and obtain a dynamic ip address did you have to state a reason why before they allow you to get a dynamic ip address?

michaelmurfy

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#2392237 14-Jan-2020 22:44

Dochart: For those of you who have requested to opt out of CGNAT and obtain a dynamic ip address did you have to state a reason why before they allow you to get a dynamic ip address?

Yes - because the majority of customers don't need to do this. Just because you want one isn't a reason. If you have a legitimate service that has suddenly stopped working then they'll rectify it for you.

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