[Snap] Snap refuses to replace faulty gear

Forums › 2degrees (including Slingshot, Orcon, Flip, Stuff Fibre, MyRepublic, 2talk and Vocus) › [Snap] Snap refuses to replace faulty gear

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#1162549 26-Oct-2014 20:12

Brendan:
sbiddle:
I don't have a view here whether Snap are in the right or wrong but there are a few things to consider when attempting a CGA claim.

The issue here is a software one, not a hardware one. While you may consider the piece of hardware to be a device, it's actually the software on it that has disabled the functionality. Software was not covered under the CGA until the changes this year. If you purchased the router before this change, you've potentially not got an grounds for a claim.

Thanks Steve, a useful reply.

I did purchase the router this year. A few months ago.

Even if you were covered the issue becomes exceptionally complex as the issue is a software one. If functionality is removed from a software application due to a security issue who would the claim be against?

Still the retailer. I think though, that if software is part of a hardware item (firmware), the case is more solid. No one would argue a microwave oven with faulty microcontroller code could not be replaced under the CGA. Or a smartphone that wont make calls due to a faulty update. Or a freeview box that locked up after a update.

Why should a router be different?

When did you purchase it though? The SMB feature was removed earlier in the year when AVM removed it and made it pretty clear it was unlikely to return as the 7390 didn't have enough system resources to support it. I don't think you can compare this with faulty code - there is nothing faulty about it. AVM quite simply decided to remove a feature to add another.

Software is a new addition to the CGA that never existed because it opens up a massive can of worms. I'm really surprised that it was included.

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#1162580 26-Oct-2014 21:01

All i can think of is *BuMMeR*

Hope ya get it sorted

:(

sorceror

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#1162587 26-Oct-2014 21:19

Brendan:
Still the retailer. I think though, that if software is part of a hardware item (firmware), the case is more solid. No one would argue a microwave oven with faulty microcontroller code could not be replaced under the CGA. Or a smartphone that wont make calls due to a faulty update. Or a freeview box that locked up after a update.

Why should a router be different?

it's more of a case of you not knowing how to use the microwave, so you ask for a replacement.

don't get me wrong - i'm not trying to belittle your issue, i just think that it is a support problem, not a CGA one.

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#1162634 26-Oct-2014 23:08

sorceror:
Brendan:
Still the retailer. I think though, that if software is part of a hardware item (firmware), the case is more solid. No one would argue a microwave oven with faulty microcontroller code could not be replaced under the CGA. Or a smartphone that wont make calls due to a faulty update. Or a freeview box that locked up after a update.

Why should a router be different?

it's more of a case of you not knowing how to use the microwave, so you ask for a replacement.

don't get me wrong - i'm not trying to belittle your issue, i just think that it is a support problem, not a CGA one.

There are people who abuse the CGA in order to get a new product, claiming that their old product is not "fit for purpose" whilst the new one is. I believe the OP is one of these people simply put, his current router is fine and the SMB feature was always useless anyway so unless if he has evidence he was using it at the very start I don't believe he has any grounds for a CGA claim at all - it is simply looking for something to potentially complain with the CGA about and doing so to get an upgrade.

Newer products come out - I've seen people do it with even things like the iPhone "Oh my current iPhone is not fit for purpose, the new iPhone takes better night time photography and thats what I bought my current iPhone for, so you have to replace it..." - you could imagine how hard this kind of claim is because if people kept doing that the retailers lose quite a bit of money, nobody wants to buy a 2nd hand iPhone from a store and I believe that nobody will buy a 2nd hand router with no real issues either hence why the distributor (Snap) are not accepting such a claim.

Honestly, without op-bashing I think this is just an excuse to get "the better" router and I really don't support this, the CGA is there to protect the customer and the retailer and not be abused like the OP appears to be doing.

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Brendan

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#1162640 26-Oct-2014 23:39

deadlyllama: Write them a letter (on paper) setting out the problem and tell them that you will take the case to the disputes tribunal if they do not resolve it.

If they don't resolve it, take the case to the disputes tribunal. But you're unlikely to get this far.

If I was a Snap customer and they sold me an expensive router, then upgraded its firmware so that a feature I needed vanished, I'd be spitting tacks too.

Thanks, i might just have to do that.

Yes, it is in fact a feature I used regularly - as in daily. I have a set of useful utilities, install files, drivers etc on it that I use for repairing computers for clients in another room. I use it via wifi, so high performance NAS wouldn't make a difference.

Brendan

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#1162641 26-Oct-2014 23:40

richms: If the CGA gets misused successfully in this way then we can all look foward to even higher hardware prices as people start abusing it to return things in manners like this.

What manner would that be? Expecting features I paid for you mean?

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Brendan

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#1162643 26-Oct-2014 23:47

sbiddle:
When did you purchase it though? The SMB feature was removed earlier in the year when AVM removed it and made it pretty clear it was unlikely to return as the 7390 didn't have enough system resources to support it. I don't think you can compare this with faulty code - there is nothing faulty about it. AVM quite simply decided to remove a feature to add another.

Software is a new addition to the CGA that never existed because it opens up a massive can of worms. I'm really surprised that it was included.

About 3 months ago. I could not test it then as the Fiber connection was only just installed by Chorus (long waiting list around here...).

Brendan

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#1162653 26-Oct-2014 23:56

sorceror:
Brendan:
Still the retailer. I think though, that if software is part of a hardware item (firmware), the case is more solid. No one would argue a microwave oven with faulty microcontroller code could not be replaced under the CGA. Or a smartphone that wont make calls due to a faulty update. Or a freeview box that locked up after a update.

Why should a router be different?

it's more of a case of you not knowing how to use the microwave, so you ask for a replacement.

don't get me wrong - i'm not trying to belittle your issue, i just think that it is a support problem, not a CGA one.

I'd be fascinated to hear what you base that presumption on.

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#1162654 26-Oct-2014 23:58

SMB support was dropped from the firtz in a recent firmware series.

All signs indicate that will not change.

Not to beat on a dead horse here, but never should you really expect anything of your router except that its a router imo.

Ild never want my routers cpu time to be put to anything but doing its real job... moving those packets...

as for the 3 month wait. this is hardly snaps fault, and reasonably typical of a UFB installation.

To test the SMB feature, you did not need an active connection at all. you could have tested it without internet connectivity any time but choose not to.

im not looking forward to the day fridges get usb ports and "built in file servers"...

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Brendan

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#1162663 27-Oct-2014 00:30

hio77:

Not to beat on a dead horse here, but never should you really expect anything of your router except that its a router imo.

I only expect what they told me I would get and I bought on that premise.

To test the SMB feature, you did not need an active connection at all. you could have tested it without internet connectivity any time but choose not to.

I was told to wait for the firmware upgrade.

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#1162706 27-Oct-2014 05:38

michaelmurfy:
There are people who abuse the CGA in order to get a new product, claiming that their old product is not "fit for purpose" whilst the new one is. I believe the OP is one of these people simply put, his current router is fine and the SMB feature was always useless anyway so unless if he has evidence he was using it at the very start I don't believe he has any grounds for a CGA claim at all - it is simply looking for something to potentially complain with the CGA about and doing so to get an upgrade.

Newer products come out - I've seen people do it with even things like the iPhone "Oh my current iPhone is not fit for purpose, the new iPhone takes better night time photography and thats what I bought my current iPhone for, so you have to replace it..." - you could imagine how hard this kind of claim is because if people kept doing that the retailers lose quite a bit of money, nobody wants to buy a 2nd hand iPhone from a store and I believe that nobody will buy a 2nd hand router with no real issues either hence why the distributor (Snap) are not accepting such a claim.

Honestly, without op-bashing I think this is just an excuse to get "the better" router and I really don't support this, the CGA is there to protect the customer and the retailer and not be abused like the OP appears to be doing.

You don't need the CGA for this. There are people who abuse warranties by dropping day-old laptops and claiming they're broken so please get me the new one kthx bai. This is not that situation. Part of the genius of the CGA is it removes the run-around between retailer and manufacturer. Snap sold Brendan a router, telling him it was also a NAS. Then the router required an upgrade to avoid running up huge toll bills (so the router was defective when sold), this update turned a router+NAS into just a router.

I know this is Geekzone and we're all terribly cynical about what to expect from IT gear/suppliers, but put on your "explain this to your mother" hat and imagine telling her that the expensive item she bought no longer does what you'd told her it would, and that's just how it is. Most people are non-technical. They'd be pretty upset. Snap chose to sell the Fritzboxes. It turns out their supplier stuffed up. But Brendan has no relationship with AVM/Fritz. He bought the router from Snap. His only recourse is to go back to the retailer who sold him the product.

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#1162733 27-Oct-2014 08:01

Brendan:
deadlyllama: Write them a letter (on paper) setting out the problem and tell them that you will take the case to the disputes tribunal if they do not resolve it.

If they don't resolve it, take the case to the disputes tribunal. But you're unlikely to get this far.

If I was a Snap customer and they sold me an expensive router, then upgraded its firmware so that a feature I needed vanished, I'd be spitting tacks too.

Thanks, i might just have to do that.

Yes, it is in fact a feature I used regularly - as in daily. I have a set of useful utilities, install files, drivers etc on it that I use for repairing computers for clients in another room. I use it via wifi, so high performance NAS wouldn't make a difference.

My understanding is FTP and HTTP access to the USB drive are still available, it's only SMB access that has been removed. Have you tried either of these as a solution?

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#1162766 27-Oct-2014 09:11

Brendan:
deadlyllama: Write them a letter (on paper) setting out the problem and tell them that you will take the case to the disputes tribunal if they do not resolve it.

If they don't resolve it, take the case to the disputes tribunal. But you're unlikely to get this far.

If I was a Snap customer and they sold me an expensive router, then upgraded its firmware so that a feature I needed vanished, I'd be spitting tacks too.

Thanks, i might just have to do that.

Yes, it is in fact a feature I used regularly - as in daily. I have a set of useful utilities, install files, drivers etc on it that I use for repairing computers for clients in another room. I use it via wifi, so high performance NAS wouldn't make a difference.

I thought the CGA did not apply where an item was bought or used for business...

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#1162767 27-Oct-2014 09:15

Brendan:
sbiddle:
When did you purchase it though? The SMB feature was removed earlier in the year when AVM removed it and made it pretty clear it was unlikely to return as the 7390 didn't have enough system resources to support it. I don't think you can compare this with faulty code - there is nothing faulty about it. AVM quite simply decided to remove a feature to add another.

Software is a new addition to the CGA that never existed because it opens up a massive can of worms. I'm really surprised that it was included.

About 3 months ago. I could not test it then as the Fiber connection was only just installed by Chorus (long waiting list around here...).

I was with you all the way until I read this. SMB was removed as a feature back in February. You'll find confirmation of that in these Facebook posts: https://www.facebook.com/fritzboxinternational/posts/598573693552385?comment_id=645708838838870&offset=0&total_comments=5

Unless you can find an example of where the 7390 was being advertised as having SMB support for the NAS component after that, you're probably stuck.

By the way, although SMB sharing was disabled you can still access the NAS via FTP or via the web browser GUI, have you tried using either of those? The web browser sucks a bit but FTP makes it pretty usable, although like others have said... it's slow as (and always was). Not even fast enough to stream a video file.

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#1162773 27-Oct-2014 09:55

Gordy7:
I thought the CGA did not apply where an item bought or used for business...

Incorrect.

Suppliers are able to contract out of the CGA for sales to businesses, but unless they do, the CGA still applies.

43 No contracting out except for business transactions

(1) Subject to this section and to sections 40, 41, and 43A, the provisions of this Act shall have effect notwithstanding any provision to the contrary in any agreement. (2) However, despite subsection (1), parties to an agreement may include a provision in their agreement to the effect that the provisions of this Act will not apply to that agreement, provided that—
- (a) the agreement is in writing; and
- (b) the goods or services are, or (in connection only with the guarantee of acceptable quality in section 7A) the gas or electricity is, supplied and acquired in trade; and
- (c) all parties to the agreement—
  - (i) are in trade; and
  - (ii) agree to contract out of the provisions of this Act; and
- (d) it is fair and reasonable that the parties are bound by the provision in the agreement.

http://www.legislation.govt.nz/act/public/1993/0091/latest/DLM312859.html?search=ts_act%40bill%40regulation%40deemedreg_consumer+_resel_25_a&p=1

Brendan:

I would, but they have me on a contract with penalties, and i would still be left with a faulty router.

Snap has been fine for several years and I have been pleased. They have really dropped the ball on this one. The solution is simple: a new router.

As you would get without debate from any ISP.

This seems to be too complicated for them.

It routes packets, which is what it was intended for. The fact you had a momentary lapse of reason and thought you'd get a router with a so-called NAS device built in defies belief. Snap wasn't doing themselves any favors by selling such a device either.

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