New UFB = Poor Performance?

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3916 posts

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#730201 11-Dec-2012 09:46

Adappted:
sbiddle:
Adappted: I posted a speedtest on Orcon's facebook page:

This is their response:

"apologies to hear you're having issues. To the server you're testing (New York) those speeds look about right.

Try other servers like California, otherwise if the team can't offer any improvement your line will already be as fast as possible."

2mbit looks about right for "ULTRAFAST BROADBAND" connection...? say what? My ADSL could hit 6-6.5mbit to NY. This is absurd. I think the press needs to get involved, the taxpayer has forked over 1.5 billion dollars for this? Unbelievable.

I too would be vary careful if you're going to complain to the media - because a complaint about only getting a 2Mbps speedtest falls very outside the scope entirely of the UFB project.

So ultimately what is the point of UFB if international speeds are SLOWER than ADSL? Like mentioned before I could at times get 6.5mbit ADSL to the USA, now on fibre I get 2mbit or under, the the UK I get 0.5mbit or under. This all seems like a step backwards. Now, I could try switching to snap but I hear mixed reviews from them as well. Hopefully Telecom will at least get my international back to ADSL speeds. Also Orcon claims my 2mbit to NY looks fine. They also say that my line is maxed out hitting 2mbit to USA, yet my neighbor 3 doors up on the 100mbit Orcon plan hits 8mbit to the USA. If the fibre were maxed out at 2mbit then he would also be stuck at 2mbit. Why would Orcon not allow my line the same 8mbit if I am on a 30mbit plan? Something stinks..

2mbps is about right for a single TCP connection to New York. Try a proper test e.g. maybe IPERF if you can find a server with 250ms of latency.

The fact this is slow has nothing to do with UFB being inferior to ADSL, probably some kind of teething issues with either Chorus or Orcon.

What a classic kiwi though, complaining about it like its the end of the world but not willing to take action yourself..... always someone else's problem?

Speedtest 2019-10-14

rossmnz

507 posts

Ultimate Geek

#730220 11-Dec-2012 10:02

http://www.orcon.net.nz/fibre#fibre-landing

You look at the "benefits" and Orcon clearly advertise UFB as faster and the best way to deliver all the internet offers.

Arguably everyone suffering slower speeds than ADSL has a case for early termination of contract - this is blatantly false advertising and the product is not fit for its intended purpose.

However, my personal opinion is that its an issue outside of Orcon/Snaps control ie Chorus and part of the teething issues in being an early adopter.

My friend works at Telecom and is testing their UFB in Halswell,Christchurch and she is certainly having no issues.

The force is strong with this one!

Talkiet

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#730235 11-Dec-2012 10:12

I can't believe I'm about to pull out the old roading analogy, but I will, since it seems it's needed.

I've taken all sorts of license with this, and parts are for amusement, and clarification...

Anyway, imagine that Broadband isn't Broadband, and packets aren't packets... They are widgets, and you get widgets delivered every day. Widgets come from the US.

Today, the widgets are loaded into a container in the US, sent on a ship to NZ, unloaded in Auckland, then transferred to a train which takes the widgets to the town you're in and then they are put into a 1994 ford transit and delivered to your house.

Under UFB, the widgets are loaded into a container in the US, sent on a ship to NZ, unloaded in Auckland, then automatically loaded onto a bullet train which tears up and down the country at 300kmh and has a cunning system to unload the widgets into waiting ferraris at each town. The Ferrar (driven by Schumacher now he's retired from F1) then tears up the road and delivers you the widget.

So, hopefully this makes it clear why you MAY NOT see a dramatic improvement for international deliveries with UFB.

Cheers - N

Please note all comments are from my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.

rossmnz

507 posts

Ultimate Geek

#730258 11-Dec-2012 10:37

I think the analogy should be more like:

Freight company A brings widgets from the USB. All widgets come from the USA on the same ship but your premium service delivers the widgets to your door from the port via ferrari whilst the "regular" service uses a postal van.

All things being equal the Ferrari should be faster however Freight company A cannot account for variables in local delivery such as a crash or a Service company C(horus) filling our hi po ferrari with diesel.

Did i just say that? Oops.

The force is strong with this one!

Beccara

1469 posts

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#730263 11-Dec-2012 10:46

Tried to stay out of this but seem to be dragged into it.

With Ordia/Korcon I wouldn't be so quick to place the blame on Chorus or accept the speed as normal. Clearly one poster here used to get 4 times the speed to a specific speedtest host which would indicate at the very least a change in the QoS pool he's sitting in (Acceptable given DSL vs UFB differences)

The national speedtest's do look a little suspect with 27ms of latency, Still for a 30/10 circuit 16/8 is not too shabby, Unless there is a low level of packet loss occurring on the Chorus network i'm not sure how Chorus could be affecting his Int speeds

I've recently had the pleasure of dealing with them over International all the way up to their architect's. Spent the better part of a week convincing them they had a fault, Yes 2mbit is around right for a single TCP stream at that latency however this would indicate an issue with TCP Window scaling which for high speed needs to hit around the 1-2mbyte mark to sustain speed at that distance, any sort of packet loss will kick it back down very fast. In the end the specific problem with my issue was related to QoS being incorrectly set in their core along with async routing with the downstream coming via TelstraGlobal. Fixed the QoS and some BGP blocking of our ranges to TelstraGlobal and we went from 10-15mbit max from LA to over 60mbit.

It was a massive fight to get it sorted and this was from a high 6 figure per year customer, I dont expect this guy's gonna get any traction, I would certainly avoid Korcon for the time being as everythings murky from the formal merger. Maybe they will get better when their new STM-16 comes online but even then if you need support good luck

Maybe try some testing over a VPN to LA, Post a before and after to the same speedtest server within a few minutes of each other, Depending on whats at play here you should get faster speeds.

Just because SNAP reported one issue with Chorus and their HO dont be so quick to blame them, We dont know the scope of the issue SNAP were having and even if it was SNAP alone or everyone but I highly doubt it, Everyone I know and have spoken to who are at the coalface of the UFB aren't finding any real issues with the network, Mainly just backoffice issues

Most problems are the result of previous solutions...

All comment's I make are my own personal opinion and do not in any way, shape or form reflect the views of current or former employers unless specifically stated

rossmnz

507 posts

Ultimate Geek

#730279 11-Dec-2012 11:15

So if Orcon is a QoS issue this then brings us back to blatant false advertising and product not fit for purpose?

They clearly advertise UFB as a faster, better product than DSL yet having a differing QoS pool affecting speed makes zero sense at all?

The force is strong with this one!

Nebbie

458 posts

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#730287 11-Dec-2012 11:26

Adappted: I posted a speedtest on Orcon's facebook page:

This is their response:

"apologies to hear you're having issues. To the server you're testing (New York) those speeds look about right.

Try other servers like California, otherwise if the team can't offer any improvement your line will already be as fast as possible."

2mbit looks about right for "ULTRAFAST BROADBAND" connection...? say what? My ADSL could hit 6-6.5mbit to NY. This is absurd. I think the press needs to get involved, the taxpayer has forked over 1.5 billion dollars for this? Unbelievable.

I would agree with Orcon that these speeds for this latency is normal..... Welcome to TCP and the current workings of the intertubes.
In NZ we are geographically in a crappy place far away from 90% of content so for us there is going to be high latency to some places. NY being quite a distance from NZ I would expect to get high latency and low speeds for a single TCP thread.

Theres no way to explaine it you just need to really read up about the limitations of TCP and throughput speed to understand.

There is one way to fix this Quantum Entanglement Commutation :) I would this that this may be only another 50 - 90 years away.

EDIT: I forgot to add the tax payer is paying for the connection from the door to the ISP not from the ISP to the rest of the world.... this is were the bottleneck is and its been well known for a number of years before UFB started that this is were the bottle neck would be. Its just the way NZ seems to do things it has to get really bad before something is done about it and well..... its not REALLY BAD yet.

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Equinox IT

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Beccara

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#730289 11-Dec-2012 11:27

rossmnz: So if Orcon is a QoS issue this then brings us back to blatant false advertising and product not fit for purpose?

They clearly advertise UFB as a faster, better product than DSL yet having a differing QoS pool affecting speed makes zero sense at all?

It doesn't make alot of sense unless the UFB pool is underspec'ed and they have a high uptake of unlimited users who are pushing it hard, Orcon manage to break things in ways I'd have to work very hard to be able to break it in that manner but my main point was not to jump to the conclusion that this connection is OK or that it's a Chorus issue. Orcon have a long track record in public and even moreso in private for being a PITA and breaking things

Adappted

121 posts

Master Geek

#730291 11-Dec-2012 11:29

rossmnz: So if Orcon is a QoS issue this then brings us back to blatant false advertising and product not fit for purpose?

They clearly advertise UFB as a faster, better product than DSL yet having a differing QoS pool affecting speed makes zero sense at all?

Totally agree. I could see a service stating "Theoretical Maximum" of 5mbit and you get 2mbit. But to advertise and be off by 28mbit is blatant, and to state it's better than ADSL. Look, I know it's a "1st world problem", I more disappointed than enraged. I'll live and I accept being a guinea pig early adopter. That being said, they are way off base in their marketing so I've filed a complaint with the commerce commission..

Adappted

121 posts

Master Geek

#730292 11-Dec-2012 11:32

Nebbie:
Adappted: I posted a speedtest on Orcon's facebook page:

This is their response:

"apologies to hear you're having issues. To the server you're testing (New York) those speeds look about right.

Try other servers like California, otherwise if the team can't offer any improvement your line will already be as fast as possible."

2mbit looks about right for "ULTRAFAST BROADBAND" connection...? say what? My ADSL could hit 6-6.5mbit to NY. This is absurd. I think the press needs to get involved, the taxpayer has forked over 1.5 billion dollars for this? Unbelievable.

I would agree with Orcon that these speeds for this latency is normal..... Welcome to TCP and the current workings of the intertubes.

If my 30mbit connection is maxed at 2mbit as Orcon claims, then how is my mate 3 doors down on 100mbit plan getting 8mbit. If your argument were correct then he too would be stuck at the 2mbit bottle neck. And how do you explain my faster speeds on ADSL?

Talkiet

4792 posts

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#730295 11-Dec-2012 11:37

Adappted, what is the fastest possible speedtest you can get, from the best local speedtest site of any type, including, if possible, one hosted at Orcon?

Do you understand that the 30mbit service is ONLY BETWEEN YOU AND ORCON? What happens after that is nothing to do with UFB. It has everything to do with the ISP and how they choose to dimension resources for their early adopter, probably high use, residential fibre broadband customers.

If you can get good speeds to somewhere close, then that means that the UFB fibre component is working fine, and your issue should be with the Orcon service generally.

Cheers - N

ps. I am NOT saying there's definitely nothing wrong. I AM saying that complaining about performance to the US as an indicator of UFB or even ISP performance is a terrible idea.

Please note all comments are from my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.

sbiddle

30853 posts

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#730307 11-Dec-2012 11:51

Talkiet:
Do you understand that the 30mbit service is ONLY BETWEEN YOU AND ORCON?

And remembering "Orcon" in this case is the EAS handover point where Chorus (or any of the other LFC's) hand over the connection to your ISP.

The only speed guarantee with UFB is your CIR. This should theoretically be guaranteed not just to the EAS, but to your ISP's core network*

*=And this will open a big can of worms and cause massive issues if end users start tagging their own traffic..

Beccara

1469 posts

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#730313 11-Dec-2012 11:59

Nebbie:
Adappted: I posted a speedtest on Orcon's facebook page:

This is their response:

"apologies to hear you're having issues. To the server you're testing (New York) those speeds look about right.

Try other servers like California, otherwise if the team can't offer any improvement your line will already be as fast as possible."

2mbit looks about right for "ULTRAFAST BROADBAND" connection...? say what? My ADSL could hit 6-6.5mbit to NY. This is absurd. I think the press needs to get involved, the taxpayer has forked over 1.5 billion dollars for this? Unbelievable.

I would agree with Orcon that these speeds for this latency is normal..... Welcome to TCP and the current workings of the intertubes.
In NZ we are geographically in a crappy place far away from 90% of content so for us there is going to be high latency to some places. NY being quite a distance from NZ I would expect to get high latency and low speeds for a single TCP thread.

Theres no way to explaine it you just need to really read up about the limitations of TCP and throughput speed to understand.

There is one way to fix this Quantum Entanglement Commutation :) I would this that this may be only another 50 - 90 years away.

EDIT: I forgot to add the tax payer is paying for the connection from the door to the ISP not from the ISP to the rest of the world.... this is were the bottleneck is and its been well known for a number of years before UFB started that this is were the bottle neck would be. Its just the way NZ seems to do things it has to get really bad before something is done about it and well..... its not REALLY BAD yet.

Reality would like a word with you

Slower than I thought but still much faster at 8.7mbit/sec with 50ms more latency

Adappted

121 posts

Master Geek

#730330 11-Dec-2012 12:03

Talkiet: Adappted, what is the fastest possible speedtest you can get, from the best local speedtest site of any type, including, if possible, one hosted at Orcon?

Do you understand that the 30mbit service is ONLY BETWEEN YOU AND ORCON? What happens after that is nothing to do with UFB. It has everything to do with the ISP and how they choose to dimension resources for their early adopter, probably high use, residential fibre broadband customers.

If you can get good speeds to somewhere close, then that means that the UFB fibre component is working fine, and your issue should be with the Orcon service generally.

Cheers - N

ps. I am NOT saying there's definitely nothing wrong. I AM saying that complaining about performance to the US as an indicator of UFB or even ISP performance is a terrible idea.

Yes, national is fine and indicates a successful fibre connection, but it stops there. I'm more complaining about disinfo in marketing and what is actually delivered. People smiling as their youtube videos shoot right down, when in reality I can barely stream youtube now (not an issue when I had ADSL). I was completely led to believe I was going to have a great new connection and new experience with Orcon fibre, that never eventuated and their support doesn't want to know about it. Straight from their site:

Benefits: Faster Boroadband: Fibre optic cables mean higher speeds, bringing you the best entertainment, internet and voice - faster. It's the way of the future, and is the best way to deliver all the great things the internet offers.

Adappted

121 posts

Master Geek

#730365 11-Dec-2012 12:35

Someone asked speedtest with and without VPN so here is today's (Orcon UFB 30mbit plan)

without VPN

with VPN

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