New UFB = Poor Performance?

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tchart

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#111053 22-Oct-2012 21:33

Guys,

Just after some opinions. We recently had UFB installed with Orcon. Our speedtest.net results are reasonably good - averaging around 22mbps down and 10mbps up (pings are normally <100ms) for the local Wellington server.

Local sites are generally fast (trademe, stuff etc) but international sites are really slow (wired, tmz etc). TMZ takes around 12 seconds to render (Chrome, Win 7 64 bit, i5 processor).

I know its depends on the device but my Win 7 laptop, Galaxy tab and the wifes iPad are all having this issue. Anything international seems to be stuck in molasses.

As an example I downloaded an app off the Play store tonight which was around 4mb and this took a good 80 seconds over WiFi while on 2 degrees (3G) it took 14 seconds (even repeated this a few times to make sure nothing was caching - similar results each time).

We were previously with Telecom ADSL and never had issues like this.

Does this sound right to anyone?

Thanks

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#704825 22-Oct-2012 21:38

Well ufb makes basically no difference to how much international capacity you get. It's an upgrade to the last mile, nothing more.

Havin said that, 12 seconds to render a website does seem unusually slow. Have you called orcon to check it out?

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nakedmolerat

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#704826 22-Oct-2012 21:38

I guess the issue is with Orcon

tchart

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#704828 22-Oct-2012 21:42

Its a brand new install (Friday) so I will ring them tomorrow. My guess is Orcon but we will see. Its just hard to explain to the wife why TMZ loads so much slower than it used to :(

The "app" download was an eye opener as it was literally 5-6 times faster on 3G which doesn't seem right at all.

It might be "first world problems" but UFB really is disappointing so far.

nakedmolerat

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#704841 22-Oct-2012 22:53

tchart: Its a brand new install (Friday) so I will ring them tomorrow. My guess is Orcon but we will see. Its just hard to explain to the wife why TMZ loads so much slower than it used to :(

The "app" download was an eye opener as it was literally 5-6 times faster on 3G which doesn't seem right at all.

It might be "first world problems" but UFB really is disappointing so far.

my UFB experience is on the other hand is excellent. 100/50 plan (not with Orcon) tho.

Zeon

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#704854 22-Oct-2012 23:54

There seems to be an issue with a few ISPs and UFB. Its a brand new product with not too many connections so I guess things are still needing to be ironed out.

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antoniosk

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#704880 23-Oct-2012 07:55

tchart: Guys,

Just after some opinions. We recently had UFB installed with Orcon. Our speedtest.net results are reasonably good - averaging around 22mbps down and 10mbps up (pings are normally <100ms) for the local Wellington server.

We were previously with Telecom ADSL and never had issues like this.

Does this sound right to anyone?

Thanks

Telecom NZ has spent eye-watering sums of money over the last few years over much of their infrastructure, which also includes the Internet platforms Xtra sits on. Really important when the access network is fundamentally shifting upwards in speed - the networking equipment has to be 'manned up' to cope.

That's requires significant money, an investment programme many small ISP's can struggle with... sounds like you've come across some of that.

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mercutio

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#704918 23-Oct-2012 09:33

orcon are generally slower for international sites due to them routing most traffic via australia.

that said things like google store should be on cdn and fast. google can be a bit random with where they serve things from though, some of it's australia, and some of it can be europe, japan, us.

at least play.google.com seems to be in sydney, but even when google host in sydney a lot of the content can come from overseas from there leading to some additional latency compared to going to the us version.

historically orcon have been slow with uncached akamai content compared to telecom/telstraclear. they have more than one akamai mirror, which seem independent so you have to do a few tests to get cached. but even that, should go at 400 to 700k/sec which is about what 3g does.

Zeon

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#704919 23-Oct-2012 09:34

antoniosk:
tchart: Guys,

Just after some opinions. We recently had UFB installed with Orcon. Our speedtest.net results are reasonably good - averaging around 22mbps down and 10mbps up (pings are normally <100ms) for the local Wellington server.

We were previously with Telecom ADSL and never had issues like this.

Does this sound right to anyone?

Thanks

Telecom NZ has spent eye-watering sums of money over the last few years over much of their infrastructure, which also includes the Internet platforms Xtra sits on. Really important when the access network is fundamentally shifting upwards in speed - the networking equipment has to be 'manned up' to cope.

That's requires significant money, an investment programme many small ISP's can struggle with... sounds like you've come across some of that.

Orcon's core network is fine capacity wise so I think this is a moot point for them unless they get huge numbers of new customers. It seems its their edge devices and traffic management platforms that haven't been properly setup or indeed some kind of Chorus fault.

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Sounddude

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#704926 23-Oct-2012 10:01

mercutio: orcon are generally slower for international sites due to them routing most traffic via australia.

News to me :-)

Kyanar

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#704928 23-Oct-2012 10:04

I have also noticed since 2 days ago a sever degradation of performance on my Orcon DSL connection - App upgrades on my phone are actually faster if I disconnect from my wifi which is just backwards. On occasion, I'll simply lose all data for up to a minute or so which can be frustrating as well. Maybe not just a UFB problem?

mercutio

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#704940 23-Oct-2012 10:17

Sounddude:
mercutio: orcon are generally slower for international sites due to them routing most traffic via australia.

News to me :-)

well it's more in regards to latency, than bandwidth necessarily, and tcp can be worse than icmp, and it can be kind of random what goes via australia or not. but generally speaking, latency from london to los angeles is similar to auckland to los angeles, but if either of the ways goes via australia each direction going via australia adds about 30 msec latency, and generally speaking web requests are 3 to 7x rtt, so there's about an additional 100 to 200 msec latency per request, and if there are page dependencies it has to wait to receive that, then do the next request, and if there are lots of images even if they haven't changed it has to go and check them all and can run out of slots and have to wait for some to complete. so overall page load times to los angeles are slowed down by about 25%, and page load times to the uk are slowed down by about 12.5%.

so i suppose that's a 2 second page load time increased to 2.5 seconds in los angeles, and a page load time of 4 seconds in the uk increased to 4.5 seconds.

it's worse with https, than http, as https adds extra round trip times. which is noticable when for instance facebook decides to randomly start using https even when you haven't enabled it, and don't want it.

for comparisons sake:

--- www.orcon.net.nz ping statistics ---
6 packets transmitted, 6 received, 0% packet loss, time 5007ms
rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 161.860/162.198/162.724/0.289 ms

--- www.slingshot.co.nz ping statistics ---
5 packets transmitted, 5 received, 0% packet loss, time 4001ms
rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 125.736/127.029/130.047/1.574 ms

--- www.ihug.co.nz ping statistics ---
6 packets transmitted, 6 received, 0% packet loss, time 5007ms
rtt min/avg/max/mdev = 135.385/135.433/135.509/0.217 ms

mercutio

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#704943 23-Oct-2012 10:19

Kyanar: I have also noticed since 2 days ago a sever degradation of performance on my Orcon DSL connection - App upgrades on my phone are actually faster if I disconnect from my wifi which is just backwards. On occasion, I'll simply lose all data for up to a minute or so which can be frustrating as well. Maybe not just a UFB problem?

i noticed lots of issues with orcon international dropouts on friday around 7 to 9 pm? although it was in multiple instances, and was more like 5 minutes than 2 minutes. symptoms were packet loss, then no packets received after the 121.99... address

tchart

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#705037 23-Oct-2012 12:26

Thanks for the comments all. Performance has degraded further to the point where we cant check emails and the (genius) phone line isnt working for in bound or outbound calls. On the phone with Orcon tech support now...

linw

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#705107 23-Oct-2012 14:00

I have been on Orcon 30/10 for nearly eight weeks and it is certainly true that UFB only affects the last mile. To this extent, I find the UFB come-ons downright misleading. Images of all the family enjoying fast downloads are crap. It is hard to see when this is ever going to be true.

FYI, the first time I loaded TMZ on Firefox it took 4 sec. Doing it again took 2-3 sec. So that doesn't reflect your experience.

Let's know how you go with Orcon.

@Zeon. I think you are right about the learning curve with UFB. I was getting too many phone hangs with the Genius device and Orcon have told me that they did a couple of tweaks with my voip settings. This was on Sunday last so my fingers are crossed!

mercutio

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#705111 23-Oct-2012 14:06

linw: I have been on Orcon 30/10 for nearly eight weeks and it is certainly true that UFB only affects the last mile. To this extent, I find the UFB come-ons downright misleading. Images of all the family enjoying fast downloads are crap. It is hard to see when this is ever going to be true.

FYI, the first time I loaded TMZ on Firefox it took 4 sec. Doing it again took 2-3 sec. So that doesn't reflect your experience.

Let's know how you go with Orcon.

@Zeon. I think you are right about the learning curve with UFB. I was getting too many phone hangs with the Genius device and Orcon have told me that they did a couple of tweaks with my voip settings. This was on Sunday last so my fingers are crossed!

fwiw, tmz seem to be hosted on amazon ec2, which tends to give shocking performance from nz at the best of times. but recently they've had some severe load issues / outages with slow "ebs storage".

reddit is also effected. but i'd wait a day or two for amazon to clear up about tmz being slow, and if it continues to be a bit slow it's likely to just be the normal general sluggish amazon performance.

i think the 30/10 service really should be seen as "adsl3" ... it's not a huge step up... mostly allowing the higher upload speed, but it's not really meant to be game changing. if you're still getting the same performance on a 100/50 circuit i'd be more concerned.

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