2Degrees - Free Data Hour problems

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gjd2

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#259917 30-Oct-2019 17:51

Is anyone having problems with the daily free data hours on mobile?

Instead of the data being free, it consumes Carry-Over data.

2Degrees support said to start a new data session by turning flight mode on and off. This still does not always work.

The problem also occurred on my son's phone, which is unconnected to mine.

- Does this happen to anyone else?

- Is there any way to see if the free hour is active? The Data Clock app is not accurate. It says the hour is running, but that is incorrect.

Android phones.

Prepay $19 plans.

tardtasticx

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#2346396 30-Oct-2019 17:55

I think they did a fix so you didn’t need to end the data session yourself? That’s why it doesn’t drop to 3G from 4G when you turn data clock on.

I don’t think there’s a way to tell on self service what data was used. But if you call care they can generate a report of data used and what pool the data came from (data clock, carryover, current plan month etc). I think it was called an EDW report when I was there?

Linux

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#2346397 30-Oct-2019 17:55

Just testing this now

kiwicam

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#2346398 30-Oct-2019 17:59

This is interesting. I’ve had my suspicions but haven’t got around to looking into it. I’ve been chewing through my data pretty quickly recently but most of what I do is using the free hour.

Linux

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#2346399 30-Oct-2019 18:03

I am on a Pay monthly plan and took a screen shot of my balances and just did many speedtests and none of my data balances changed

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#2346400 30-Oct-2019 18:05

This would to very easy to prove but I can't replicate it

SaltyNZ

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#2346403 30-Oct-2019 18:14

There are some situations where the PCRF fails to respond to a Gx message from the PCEF, causing the PCEF to fail back to normal charging. We are about to implement a change that should (brutally) work around it by booting the entire data session. You will need to log a call to care and be insistent but they will refund your data if you experienced this.

There is also another where it (the PCRF) fails to tell the PCEF that a Data Clock session has started. That one is tougher to work around but alarming based on post analysis of CDRs is also being implemented. I believe this one is automatically refunded the next day.

Both are relatively rare percentage-wise but it's a very popular service so there's a good chance that someone on GZ will experience it eventually. Not ideal by any means but for various reasons you won't care about our options to fix the root cause are currently limited, with a medium term project under way to replace it. Sorry. :-(

iPad Pro 11" + iPhone 15 Pro Max + 2degrees 4tw!

These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.

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gjd2

4 posts

Wannabe Geek

#2346412 30-Oct-2019 19:15

Thanks for the informative answer.

I was wondering if they had an upgrade recently because it only became an issue in recent weeks.

The 2degrees data usage page does not show usage immediately.

It helps to go Airplane mode, or restart your phone during the session. Then the page will show multiple sessions and update faster. Good for trouble shooting.

Maybe a quarter of the time I get the problem, on 2 different phones in the family.

I often start the data clock while the train is moving. Wondering if moving between cell sites causes an issue.

gjd2

4 posts

Wannabe Geek

#2346413 30-Oct-2019 19:17

2Degrees support were very good. They refunded my data last time I called. But that is a pain.

I appreciate the extra info available from other users here.

gjd2

4 posts

Wannabe Geek

#2346416 30-Oct-2019 19:27

Example:

I caught the train at about 5.

Started free hour on the data clock.

Restarted my phone - to force a new data session (2degrees recommended toggle flight mode).

Used some data.

Restarted it again a few minutes later.

The 2degrees website data usage page shows the sessions. You can see that carryover data was consumed instead of free data.

30 October 2019, 05:14 PM Data Data 61.00MB $0.00 30 October 2019, 05:08 PM Data Data 11.00MB$0.00

SaltyNZ

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#2346421 30-Oct-2019 19:34

gjd2:

I often start the data clock while the train is moving. Wondering if moving between cell sites causes an issue.

The first one (no response on Gx) is random and could occur at any time. The second one only happens at the very start of a Data Clock session if that started while a data session was already active - which of course is how you buy a Data Clock pack in the first place - but going to airplane mode and back would fix it if you happened to know it had occurred. In that context moving between cell sites is actually helpful because it causes signalling which will prompt the PCRF to do its job and tell the PCEF to stop doing data charging.

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These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.

ripdog

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#2347005 1-Nov-2019 00:07

I'm loving the jargon Salty, but it'd be great if you could expand the acronyms for us not in the business! Thanks.

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SaltyNZ

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#2347025 1-Nov-2019 07:47

ripdog:

I'm loving the jargon Salty, but it'd be great if you could expand the acronyms for us not in the business! Thanks.

Sure. :-)

In the 3GPP (the organisation that grew out of GSM and owns the GSM, UMTS (3G), LTE (4G) and 5G standards) core packet network architecture, there are four logical elements that are directly involved with subscriber's access to the internet. Obviously there are others which are equally as important, but these four are all close to the internet border.

First there is the GGSN/PGW (Gateway GPRS Support Node - 2G/3G, or Packet Gateway 4G/5G) - this is the router that terminates the mobile side of the tunnel from the handset to the internet and thus is the physical gate through which all your data must pass. Second is the PCEF (Policy and Charging Enforcement Function) which is generally but not necessarily the same physical device as the GGSN. Third is the OCS (Online Charging System) which as the name implies counts the money, and finally fourth is the PCRF (Policy and Charging Rules Function).

The PCRF is the executive that tells everyone else what to do via high level policy orders. It's like the Prime Minister issuing a directive that this year we will reduce the road toll, so I want people to slow down and have more extensive checks on their cars. Then the police go out and pull over speeders, and the NZTA makes the minimum legal tread depth 2mm or whatever.

The PCEF takes that general directive and translates it into concrete packet matches - this traffic is free, this traffic chargeable, this traffic should be throttled - and enforces those rules by physically allowing, delaying, or dropping packets as appropriate. The chargeable traffic is signalled to the OCS which can decide to allow it if you have enough money or data allowance to pay, or drop it if you don't.

The interfaces between the GGSN/PGW and the OCS and the PCEF and PCRF are Diameter (RFC 6733) with 3GPP-specific applications Gy (charging) and Gx (policy). Diameter is a client-server protocol where the normal message flow is that the client updates the server regularly and asks what to do. The messages are called Credit Control Request (CCR), and the replies are Credit Control Answer (CCA).

In the case of Data Clock the way it should work is that we start out with normal charging rules in effect - everything is charged except for DNS and a handful of sites that are free for various reasons. As you consume data the PGW has a constant dialog of CCR/CCA with the OCS on the Gy interface that means, in effect, "Can I use data?" Yes, you can use 100MB." "OK, I've used 50MB out of that 100MB. Can I use more?" "Yes, you can use 100MB." and so on.

When you buy a Data Clock pack the DC application does [application specific thing] to cause a DC pack to be created in the PCRF. At this point the circumstances have changed: now your data should be free for, say, an hour. But as I said above, the normal dialog is that the client sends a CCR and the server responds with a CCA. Now the server needs to tell the client something before the client would have otherwise asked anyway.

The procedure for this is to use another Diameter message called ReAuthorisation Request (RAR). The server can send information directly in the RAR if it wants to (where it makes sense) but the Diameter standard also says that after acknowledging the RAR with an RAA (guess what the "A" means) the client must send a CCR (to which the server could respond more fully). A crucial omission IMHO is that the standard does not add "immediately" meaning that a certain vendor's GGSN/PCEF is in fact fully compliant with the standard even if it doesn't bother to send that CCR for another hour. ಠ_ಠ

Anyway... the content of that RAR tells the PCEF that charging no longer applies. So the problem is that if the PCRF never sends the RAR, then the PCEF never knows that charging should be suspended, or at least not until it next sends a CCR on its own time anyway. In theory those CCRs should only be 50MB apart so even if the RAR doesn't happen the most you would lose is 50MB and most people wouldn't even notice that if it was rare, so there's still some investigation to be done there but the bottom line is that it starts with the PCRF not sending the RAR.

And finally to round it all off, at the end of the data clock pack time the PCRF sends another RAR to tell the PCEF to resume charging. The flip side of this is that if we don't get an RAR in that situation then your data remains free - and yes, we have also had that issue too, so it's not all one sided.

Hope that helps.

iPad Pro 11" + iPhone 15 Pro Max + 2degrees 4tw!

These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.

minigopher17

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#2347036 1-Nov-2019 08:17

Hmmm. I used a free data hour last week when we had a small scheduled power outage. Ran out of prepay data the other day and saw I used a huge amount of MBs on the day of the power outage which I thought would've been covered by the free data hour since I was on wifi for the rest of the day once the power came back on and I stopped using data as soon as the hour clocked up. Looks like my suspicions were correct and my free data hour wasn't exactly "free" that day.

I understand it's a complex beast technically, and with all the other successful free hours I've used I'm not worried about trying to prove it and seeking a refund. Just thought I'd point out it's happening to others too.

antoniosk

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#2347037 1-Nov-2019 08:20

@saltynz

Your forgot to mention that your description - that was a trip back down to the launch of GSM packet data - has to be scaled to hundreds of thousands of devices, constantly running data and put into effect immediately upon receiving the instruction.

Some might wonder why the GX response is random - it's not of course, I guess its a function of 'its a machine built by fallible humans, managed by fallible humans and not often upgraded or beefed capacity wise by humans to cope with all that traffic' - when its a typical but not unknown case of instructions being lost because computers and software are not perfect.

😄

________

Antoniosk