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16 posts

Geek


#262126 6-Jan-2020 17:30
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Perhaps I could be accused of being far too tolerant in sticking with Orcon for 14 months since their mandatory account upgrade in late 2018, which involved a change from the trusty NF4V modem to a dodgy NF18ACV.   The reason given by the lying sales staff employed to pressure me into accepting their new system, claimed it would not work with a NF4V modem.  The unwelcome imposition was closely followed by finding, that Orcon's new 'upgraded' account system would not allow me to dial out.   The affected numbers were/are unable to dial in as well.  Another part of this problem is that many other numbers respond with only one dual-beep ringtone, then nothing, although the distant subscriber's telephone keeps ringing correctly until it is either picked up or times out.  

 

These problems have been dealt with in a most unprofessional manner over the whole of the past 14 months, using everything from the universal ISP escape clause, 'it's your phone's fault', through to 'the modem won't accept firmware updates and needs to be replaced'.   All these obvious options, including telephone and modem replacements, along with hundreds of wasted-time resets to manufacturer defaults, have been tried ad nauseum, all to no avail.   A logical explanation to an untrained CSR for how the DTMF dial tones proved my phones were not at fault was, of course, dismissed out of hand.  Escalation of the case numerous times to the so-called tech teams has always resulted in an email after a few days stating the fault has been fixed, but without any explanation.   We're all too dumb to understand, you see?    None of those emails has been true.

 

After many 'new sessions' were invoked at the Orcon side, the fault simply keeps recurring in as short a time as 8 hours, or more usually every 3 to 14 days.   Just before New Year 2020, the latest ineffectual CSR on the case unilaterally refused to take the matter further without my providing a list of the affected numbers.  These same numbers have been provided up to thirty times already and are available on screen to the CSR.  How do I know this?   CSRs have read them out to me without my even having to open my mouth, yet the latest script-reading CSR refused to use the data already available on screen in front of him.  Vocus, Orcon's parent company, is equally disinterested  -  there have been no replies to emails or the numerous instances of my 'unsatisfied' negative feedback submitted through their 'Satisfied', 'Unsatisfied', post-encounter surveys.  Neither company seems to give a damn.   And just to clarify:  no monthly payments have been withheld,  perhaps they should have been.

 

Back to the question:  is 14 months with a crippled VoIP system and an ISP without the technical ability to find a resolution some sort of a record?  Or is my expectation simply too high in NZ's wild-west style, unregulated market place where ISPs arrogantly walk roughshod over hapless customers, and where a Telecommunications Ombudsman is so desperately needed? 


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155 posts

Master Geek


  #2386219 6-Jan-2020 17:35
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Telecommunications Disputes Resolution (TDR) https://www.tdr.org.nz/ fulfills a similar role to what an ombudsman would --- you could try them.




16 posts

Geek


  #2386329 6-Jan-2020 21:01
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Thank you for your suggestion.   

 

Unfortunately NZ is regarded internationally as extremely retarded in this and many other areas of jurisprudence.   From what I have read on their website and gleaned from conversations with personnel, the TDR is effectively a private company without any legal mandate or standing.   One needs only see their domain name for confirmation.  [.org does not equal .govt]   

 

Further, NZ has no legally constituted position of Telecommunications Ombudsman. There is no one to whom disadvantaged telecommunications customers can go, apart from taking their case to the regular Disputes Tribunal and paying the appropriate fee in an attempt to get justice.  But even Disputes Tribunal rulings are regularly ignored;  to have such rulings enforced by District Court bailiffs can be a lengthy nightmare, often ending without any ordered restitution being paid.

 

Despite their laudable intentions, the TDR takes only a passive, intermediary, or advisory role;  it has no teeth and ISPs just laugh at any threat to bring TDR into the equation.   ISP affiliation with the TDR is voluntary;  members pay only lip service to the provision of quality services.  Therefore ISPs are empowered to respond to TDR 'rulings' as compliantly or as dismissively as they choose.  While ISPs take scant responsibility for providing quality and reliable services despite the Consumer Guarantees Act,  TDR is not mandated to take any responsibility for the outcome under any Act, and there is no follow up.

 

The fact has to be acknowledged that telecommunication customers in NZ have zero protection from these ubiquitous ISP bully-boys. Competition has not worked!  The only option left is to publicly denounce them  -  through freedom of speech in forums such as 'geekzone'  -  by which hapless customers may not only air their grievances but also demonstrate how our ISPs generic, overarching and deeply entrenched interest is in the almighty dollar, all the while  treating their domestic customers with utter contempt and conveniently forgetting it is the customers who pay their inflated salaries.    Nobody said life was going to be fair.   Oh for the days of yore when the likes of a young Seeby Woodhouse took not only a personal interest, but also personal responsibility for delivering the goods.


 
 
 
 


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  #2386333 6-Jan-2020 21:10
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Sounds like you've been through hell with them
, but have you actually tried the TDR?




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Geek


  #2386344 6-Jan-2020 21:36
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Yes, contact with TDR has been made.  Thanks for inquiring.


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  #2386390 6-Jan-2020 23:33
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61339:

 

 Competition has not worked!

 

 

Many would argue the exact opposite. There are 80+ RSP's that offer services and nothing compelling you to stay with your current provider.

 

 


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Ultimate Geek

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  #2386437 7-Jan-2020 09:29
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I'm sorry to hear about your extended VoIP problems - if you've already engaged the TDR team then it's likely one of our ace Customer Care Managers will soon be across this, however you're very welcome to fire me a PM with your account number (or email address/phone number will do) and I can have the team take a look. Cheers, and apologies again!


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Master Geek


  #2386471 7-Jan-2020 10:22
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If my provider couldn't sort an issue within a few days without good excuse I'd be looking to change provider. 14 months is an extremely long time to wait. What's keeping you there?


 
 
 
 


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  #2386476 7-Jan-2020 10:30
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boosacnoodle:

 

If my provider couldn't sort an issue within a few days without good excuse I'd be looking to change provider. 14 months is an extremely long time to wait. What's keeping you there?

 

 

Prob a 12 month contract...altho if they cant provide services, then contract should be null and void if OP wants to move on.

 

 





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16 posts

Geek


  #2386871 7-Jan-2020 16:53
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Dear simplistic 'Change-your-ISP' responders,  

 

I hear your argument for simply moving to a different ISP, but respectfully, you're completely missing the point.  

 

We have become an irresponsible, couldn't-care-less society, individually and collectively.   If we simply allow service providers to short-change us, the same lousy attitudes will continue with the likelihood of becoming even worse.   Changing to a different, equally irresponsible provider, is neither going to fix the fault I have tolerated for so long, nor send a clear message to Orcon that ISPs need to up their game.  Our new-world love affair with laissez faire business and social paradigms, along with our blind acceptance - as the norm  - of mediocre and sub-standard performance, needs to be addressed.

 

To those who believe a change of ISP is the silver bullet,  let me clarify for you my reason for NOT rolling over:   I firmly believe Orcon needs to be held responsible for their prevailing corporate attitudes, the incompetence of their tech team(s), and the level of ignorance displayed by their CSRs. 

 

One example of this ignorance surfaced a couple of weeks ago when I was reporting again, yet another (predicted) failure to dial out.   The CSR assigned on this occasion said he needed to 'arks' me some questions.  He had a distinctive accent commonly encountered in the New Zealand countryside.  He used the same ridiculous word 'arks', on a number of other occasions during the conversation.  It was no mistake  -  this guy came across as decidedly thick. Maybe it is down to a lack of training, but he inspired no confidence whatsoever and could barely read his corporate script, yet Orcon is employing him in a 'front-of-house' position.   Not good enough.  Orcon management needs to be held responsible for their bad choices.  This is likely to be just the start.

 

 


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  #2386875 7-Jan-2020 17:04
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61339:

 

[snip]

 

 It was no mistake  -  this guy came across as decidedly thick. Maybe it is down to a lack of training, but he inspired no confidence whatsoever and could barely read his corporate script, yet Orcon is employing him in a 'front-of-house' position.   Not good enough.  Orcon management needs to be held responsible for their bad choices.  This is likely to be just the start.

 

 

 

 

I'm afraid you've lost my sympathy at this point. 

 

 


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Ultimate Geek


  #2386882 7-Jan-2020 17:18
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my only question is " why are you still with orcon after all this? "

 

If that was me I would have left them after the first month of them failing to rectify the problem.

 

 


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  #2386890 7-Jan-2020 17:42
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Honestly, reading into all your points you sound like someone who expects more than Tier 1 support.

 

 

 

your expectations for cases to be reasonably escalated through the channels is totally fair, but very few tier 1 support staff in large isps will understand the inner workings of DMTF tones.





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Any comments made are personal opinion and do not reflect directly on the position my current or past employers may have.

 


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  #2386892 7-Jan-2020 17:48
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61339:

 

Dear simplistic 'Change-your-ISP' responders,  

 

I hear your argument for simply moving to a different ISP, but respectfully, you're completely missing the point.  

 

We have become an irresponsible, couldn't-care-less society, individually and collectively.   If we simply allow service providers to short-change us, the same lousy attitudes will continue with the likelihood of becoming even worse.   Changing to a different, equally irresponsible provider, is neither going to fix the fault I have tolerated for so long, nor send a clear message to Orcon that ISPs need to up their game.  Our new-world love affair with laissez faire business and social paradigms, along with our blind acceptance - as the norm  - of mediocre and sub-standard performance, needs to be addressed.

 

 

I'm not sure how we're missing the point.

 

So your think your provider is terrible. If so build a bridge and move on to one of the other 80+ providers out there who could offer you better. That's exactly how "mediocre and sub-standard" performance is handled in the real world because it's very clear you're just happy to put up with their service and product.

 

As there are literally tens of thousands of Orcon customers who don't have issues there is very clearly something specific to your connection that is at fault. Being nice to people gets results  - having an attitude typically doesn't. If you'd come here asking nicely for help rather than soap boxing you'd probably get very different results.

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

 


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  #2386893 7-Jan-2020 17:55
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61339:[snip]  The CSR assigned on this occasion said he needed to 'arks' me some questions.  He had a distinctive accent commonly encountered in the New Zealand countryside.  He used the same ridiculous word 'arks', on a number of other occasions during the conversation.  It was no mistake  -  this guy came across as decidedly thick.

 

 

Sorry, but I think you're out of line with this comment. I worked with a pretty intelligent guy who also says aks rather than ask. It's nothing more than a local dialect variation that he grew up with, and you generally continue to speak how you first learnt. It's in no way linked to intelligence. Please remember the FUG in relation to how you speak about people here - a little respect goes a long way.


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  #2386895 7-Jan-2020 17:58
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@61339 looking at your history on GZ you appear to have been raging about Orcon since 2014. This begs the question why have you stayed?




Mike
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The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

He waka eke noa


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