Delays / Lost SMS when Phone switched off on 2Degrees

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BarTender

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#55467 5-Jan-2010 10:22

Interesting fault I seem to have found, doing some further investigation into it and will post my results.

I moved my wife who was an 021 on Vodafone over to 2Degrees, she seems to be periodically loosing SMS's, she always turns her phone off in the evening, and on again the next morning.

I also noticed yesterday that there was about a 30 min delay from sending a SMS from two 2Degrees's numbers, an 027 number which went Telecom CDMA -> Vodafone -> 2Degrees, and another Telecom XT -> 2Degrees (to prove a point... long story on that one ;) With both I used a data card to send a SMS to my vodafone 027 work number. Sent a sms at 9:30pm, and it turned up on my Voda 027 at 10:07pm. My Voda 027 was on, so the sms should have turned up straight away. In theory.

Have sent 4 SMS's to my 027 number on 2Degrees (2 from 2degrees, and one from 027 on Voda, and one from 027 on XT).

Will turn on the data card and see what SMS's turn up ;)...

The sending expiry was set to maximum on the data card I used to send the SMS's from (MF626) so in theory they should all turn up.

Anyone else noticed or "not noticed" lost SMS's??

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#287133 5-Jan-2010 11:31

In the early days (September last year), I was unable to send TXTs from a 2d mobile to a friend's Voda mobile which uses a ported 027 number. After checking with 2d, they sent me a log file showing that my TXTs were sent on to Voda, but for some reason Voda did not deliver them to my friend's mobile. This was fixed a few days later, and I have not had any problem since.

My wife and I always turn our mobiles (both on 2d using ported 021 numbers) off at night, and yet we receive any queued up TXTs within a minute or two after switching on in the morning.

I would suggest you try sending a TXT to your wife's mobile after hers is switched off for the night. Then check to see how quickly it is received in the morning. If you can provide an example to 2d Customer Service, showing evidence of a delay in reception, or complete loss of a TXT, they will look into it for you and hopefully fix it as they did in my case.

I have found 2d customer service to be very helpful in cases like this, so would recommend you give them a call.

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#287141 5-Jan-2010 11:58

A very friendly 2Deg staffer who monitors the forums has PM'ed me and I have e-mailed the relevant numbers through...

So will let you know how it goes.

And will also post the results of my findings tomorrow after a suitable time has gone by.

Detruire

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#287192 5-Jan-2010 16:37

I've noticed lost txts when I used a different SIM card for ~two days.

A couple of friends said they'd send me txts yet I didn't receive any when switching back to that card.

rm *

SaltyNZ

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#287316 6-Jan-2010 07:44

Detruire: I've noticed lost txts when I used a different SIM card for ~two days.

A couple of friends said they'd send me txts yet I didn't receive any when switching back to that card.

Could be. Our default validity period is 3 days, although you can set up to 7 days.

Seriously though, if you haven't had the SIM in for 3 days, does the message really matter any more?

***Edit: It's 4 days default validity, not 3 - I just checked the config on the box (345600 != 3 days!)

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These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.

BarTender

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#287359 6-Jan-2010 10:28

SaltyNZ:
Detruire: I've noticed lost txts when I used a different SIM card for ~two days.

A couple of friends said they'd send me txts yet I didn't receive any when switching back to that card.

Could be. Our default validity period is 3 days, although you can set up to 7 days.

Seriously though, if you haven't had the SIM in for 3 days, does the message really matter any more?

Interesting, the two SMS's I sent yesterday from my 2Degrees Sim turned up this morning, but the two I sent one from Vodafone and the other from Telecom XT didn't. The Phone (well SIM Card in MF626 Datacard) was switched off for 23 hours.

Going to ring up 2Degrees and find out whats going on.

SteveON

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#287365 6-Jan-2010 10:41

Okay that's it, I am not switching now.

I am on XT - ported 021
and I have been texting/calling my friend on 022. every second or third time I try to call or text it just disconnects/doesnt send. Once I waited over 12 hours for my xt phone to message him.

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SteveON

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#287366 6-Jan-2010 10:48

Not to mention that I often go out of range for days at a time. I expect that when I get back ALL my texts will arrive.

On VF I only had this issue after 5 days or so. I haven't been on XT long enough to notice yet.

Detruire

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#287464 6-Jan-2010 15:10

SaltyNZ: Seriously though, if you haven't had the SIM in for 3 days, does the message really matter any more?

Why shouldn't it?

rm *

SteveON

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#287466 6-Jan-2010 15:17

Detruire:
SaltyNZ: Seriously though, if you haven't had the SIM in for 3 days, does the message really matter any more?

Why shouldn't it?

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I believe texts should be valid for at least 7-14 days.

SaltyNZ

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#287477 6-Jan-2010 15:48

I believe texts should be valid for at least 7-14 days.

It isn't practical, nor generally very useful. Statistically, more than 80% (usually >90%) of person to person texts are delivered on the first try. The vast majority of subscribers have a single number, that's switched on all the time, or near to. The flip side of that is that the majority of the messages that don't get delivered on the first try end up sitting there until expiry.

The longer you make the expiry period, the more messages are waiting. Each message is periodically retried in the network. The more messages waiting, the more are retried. This ties up scarce (especially in the radio network) signalling and other capacity resources with little actual subscriber benefit.

If you want to, you can normally set a default validity period in your handset, which will be overridden by the operator's allowed maximum if you set one larger. Our max is 7 days.

Edit: To be clear validity is:

1. 2degrees -> 2degrees: default if you don't set it, whatever you set up to 7 days if you do set it, 7 days if you set longer
2. Vodafone -> 2degrees: Vodafone's default if they (VF sender) don't set it, whatever they set up to Vodafone's max* if they do (also 7 days IIRC), Vodafone's max if set longer
3. Telecom -> 2degrees: always 2degrees default validity (4 days)

*If Vodafone's max was more than 7 days, then it would be set to 7 days when it arrived in our network

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These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.

Detruire

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#287481 6-Jan-2010 16:14

SaltyNZ: If you want to, you can normally set a default validity period in your handset, which will be overridden by the operator's allowed maximum if you set one larger. Our max is 7 days.

So setting the "Validity Period" setting on my phone to "Network maximum" means 7 days for a sms from either another 2degrees or vodafone customer, 4 days from Telecom, and ? from an int'l source?

Why are smses from Telecom set to expire sooner?

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SaltyNZ

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#287485 6-Jan-2010 16:28

Detruire:
So setting the "Validity Period" setting on my phone to "Network maximum" means 7 days for a sms from either another 2degrees or vodafone customer, 4 days from Telecom, and ? from an int'l source?

Why are smses from Telecom set to expire sooner?

Validity is requested by the message sender, not the recipient. Each SMSC involved in delivery may choose to honour (or not) the requested validity.

If I set my validity to 1 hour, you set yours to "Network Maximum" and I send you a message, it's valid for 1 hour. If you send one to me, it's valid for 7 days.

When sent to Telecom or Vodafone it will then be forwarded to their SMSC which may or may not override what we send it (out of our control).

Telecom to us is always our default because occasionally they send through a wierd validity period (>1 year) and we either have the choice of dropping the message, or ignoring the requested validity. So we go with the latter. :-)

From an international source, it varies -- it's set by the sender's SMSC if they deliver to us directly via SS7. It may be overridden by a hub's max if the message goes through one and they ask for something longer, and in some cases (some ported number scenarios) it might go through Vodafone's or Telecom's SMSC(s) along the way too.

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These comments are my own and do not represent the opinions of 2degrees.

slippers

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#288794 10-Jan-2010 20:52

EVERY TEXT MATTERS!

its 3G time!

SteveON

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#288813 10-Jan-2010 21:57

With this attitude, I won't switch. Texts no matter how late ARE important!

BarTender

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#288824 10-Jan-2010 23:23

Erm, well actually I think SaltyNZ gave a very accurate description of the issue and the resolutions put in place as well. And I have to say I am VERY impressed with his response and turn around.
The longest any SMS will sit in a pending queue is 7 days, that's just standard. You could always try doing the same with Telecom or Vodafone and you would get the same response. Plus it also depends on how long the expiry time was set on the SENDERS phone. If it was only 1 hour, then that would be when the message would be discarded.
As he has already indicated there were some problems in the 2Degrees SMSC and a few more outstanding too, but so far I havn't had a dropped SMS since a few tweaks were put in place this week.
A SMS is just that, short message service. It's not a two way communication, it's a one way one much like an e-mail.
If you wanted to talk to someone you would have rung them, or called with Skype or IM'ed them. Otherwise you don't know if they got the message or not.

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