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Topic # 87862 9-Aug-2011 09:51
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I finally got my speed issues sorted last week -- it looked like *everything* was being throttled apart from HTTP.  Now most things are a bit more reasonable -- but SSH is still throttled down to a megabit or so.  I'm on Naked DSL, not AYCE.  As an aside, the first time I called up to complain they said they don't rate limit, or at least no more than other ISPs -- as far as I can tell this is utterly untrue.

When I got the call to say they'd fixed it (goodness knows how they broke things in the first place), they told me to ring back within 48 hours if the problem was still there.  Did some testing, over random TCP ports speeds were pretty good, no longer that throttled 1 megabit I was getting before.

But SSH was still slow.  Even just shoving random data down port 22 (not SSH at all) was still being rate limited.  So I  called them up to ask.  Once I managed to get the first level support to understand what SSH was, they went to talk to someone higher up and came back with the response of the century:

SSH is peer to peer filesharing, so it's deprioritised.

Idiots.

I'd switch ISPs in an instant if someone else offered free or cheap off-peak traffic.  At least my connection is tolerable now.

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  Reply # 503710 9-Aug-2011 10:00
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Slingshot is the cheapest ISP with the most heavy users, you should not be surprised that all traffic is managed given the amount of contention there must be for the limited international transit.

If SSH wasn't managed anyone with half a gram of tech savvy can figure out how to tunnel downloads over ssh to a vpn/vps/seedbox/newsnet and consume more than their "fair" share of bandwidth. It should be obvious why it needs to be managed.

If you need ssh for work, go with a better quality (and thus higher priced ISP).

Alternatively, get a NZ based vps/vpn and send your ssh traffic to overseas via it. I believe this will solve your problem as there is litte contention on domestic transit particularly hosts that peer at APE/WIX.

I agree that's it's crazy that other ISP's don't have un-metered off peak given their transit is bound to be under-utilised whilst everyone is sleeping.

It seems the smaller ISP's can't afford to spend the money on their billing systems to support this, plus the big cost of traffic management hardware that would be needed to maintain good general http, email, gaming, voip while everyone is whoring downloads.

The large ISP's are "slow to turn" and of course are not interested in anything like that until it becomes a major competitive factor where they are losing customers because they don't offer it

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  Reply # 503725 9-Aug-2011 10:19
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So.. It looks like in addition to your legal Linux ISO images via torrent protocol, ISPs are also slowing down your Linux remote access work?

;)






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  Reply # 503747 9-Aug-2011 11:02
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Ragnor: Slingshot is the cheapest ISP with the most heavy users, you should not be surprised that all traffic is managed given the amount of contention there must be for the limited international transit.

If SSH wasn't managed anyone with half a gram of tech savvy can figure out how to tunnel downloads over ssh which to a vpn/vps/seedbox/newsnet and consume more than their "fair" share of bandwidth. It should be obvious why it needs to be managed.


I only heard the horror stories after I signed up... and I know techie-types who are quite happy on Slingshot.

You can tunnel most things over most things, if you put the work in.  SSH on a high port isn't ratelimited, and I'm sshing to a VPS so I can run my SSH over a high port if I have to...

Oh well, guess that's what I'm stuck with.  But classifying SSH as "peer to peer filesharing" is just plain wrong.  It's no more so than FTP.

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  Reply # 503770 9-Aug-2011 11:58
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Well FTP is a file sharing protocol so you are correct there.

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  Reply # 503772 9-Aug-2011 12:14
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I think slingshot try to prioritise all bulk file downloading.

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  Reply # 503773 9-Aug-2011 12:15
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  Reply # 503785 9-Aug-2011 12:48
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freitasm: But in this case it impacts a protocol that people actually use for work...


I agree with the OP that their statement about SSH being P2P filesharing is a catastrophically terrible description. However it's up to each ISP to decide what service they are going to offer - I doubt there's a gun to anyones head forcing them to use a particular ISP.

If the service offered by ISP 'A' doesn't meet your requirements, then don't pay ISP 'A' your money.

SS are likely not going to modify their policy because presumably too many people used tunneling over SSH to transfer huge amounts of data from their seedboxes. It's not worth it to them to let even a subset of their userbase get around shaping in such a fashion, and they can't tell good from bad traffic.

I think this is very much a case of "Tough, vote with your wallet"

Cheers - N


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  Reply # 503787 9-Aug-2011 12:54
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And I agree. It's interesting to have this discussion though because at some point people needs to realise that SSH, P2P and whatever is not essentialy "evil". This needs to be discussed before people get the wrong idea based on incorrect information.





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  Reply # 503791 9-Aug-2011 12:58
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I agree, everyone knows slingshots reputation because of their really good prices. If you don't want rate limiting, try Telecom etc.

I do think you should of not got the run around from SS, and that their tech support should be more clued up in regards to rate limiting info. That way they would have probably saved themselves a few support tickets and maybe some $$. 



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  Reply # 503793 9-Aug-2011 13:00
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Talkiet:
freitasm: But in this case it impacts a protocol that people actually use for work...


I agree with the OP that their statement about SSH being P2P filesharing is a catastrophically terrible description. However it's up to each ISP to decide what service they are going to offer - I doubt there's a gun to anyones head forcing them to use a particular ISP.

If the service offered by ISP 'A' doesn't meet your requirements, then don't pay ISP 'A' your money.

SS are likely not going to modify their policy because presumably too many people used tunneling over SSH to transfer huge amounts of data from their seedboxes. It's not worth it to them to let even a subset of their userbase get around shaping in such a fashion, and they can't tell good from bad traffic.

I think this is very much a case of "Tough, vote with your wallet"


That's actually quite difficult.  Are there any ISPs that will tell you, up front before you're a customer, exactly what their traffic management policy is?  Combined with the number of ISPs that require 12 month contracts, and you end up in my situation: by the time you find out that the service isn't what you want, you're stuck with it for a year.

I'd expect bittorrent etc to be slow.  Everyone rateshapes that.  But SSH?

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  Reply # 503798 9-Aug-2011 13:05
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freitasm: And I agree. It's interesting to have this discussion though because at some point people needs to realise that SSH, P2P and whatever is not essentialy "evil". This needs to be discussed before people get the wrong idea based on incorrect information.



You right, but it is almost imposible to distinguish between good and bad traffic over these ports. By bad traffic I mean detrimental to other users experience, not illegal. Bad traffic to Slingshot may not necessarily bad to say Snap because they may be able to handle it.

People also need to understand that it is not their 'right' to have unleashed speeds at such a cheap consumer level.

Take the bus analogy. A bus can seat 30 people comfortably at $1 a ride. If we get those 30 to stand we can fit another 30 standing in the bus, making the ride 50cents. Lots cheaper, but less comfortable.

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  Reply # 503802 9-Aug-2011 13:10
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I think Slingshot do have the traffic management hardware that's smart enough to do pattern analysis and make a distinction between ssh used for remote vs ssh used for file transfer but they don't have the spare engineering time to dedicate to tinkering with this.

Also ex slingshot employees will tell you management sets the policies and they want browsing, email and youtube, gaming and speedtest.net as #1 priorities, everything else (any form of bulk downloading) can fight for the scraps.

My advice (if it's for work and not file transfer) is rent a cheap NZ based VPS, tunnel to that then tunnel from there to your international site.



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  Reply # 503824 9-Aug-2011 13:24
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jjnz1:
freitasm: And I agree. It's interesting to have this discussion though because at some point people needs to realise that SSH, P2P and whatever is not essentialy "evil". This needs to be discussed before people get the wrong idea based on incorrect information.



You right, but it is almost imposible to distinguish between good and bad traffic over these ports. By bad traffic I mean detrimental to other users experience, not illegal. Bad traffic to Slingshot may not necessarily bad to say Snap because they may be able to handle it.

People also need to understand that it is not their 'right' to have unleashed speeds at such a cheap consumer level.

Take the bus analogy. A bus can seat 30 people comfortably at $1 a ride. If we get those 30 to stand we can fit another 30 standing in the bus, making the ride 50cents. Lots cheaper, but less comfortable.


My previous workplace had service over what must be the Best Traffic Managment System Ever, as far as I could tell.

You had your CIR that you paid for, and you could burst beyond that but if you burst beyond it a lot, you'd find that your traffic's priority dropped.  So if you paid for a cheaper plan and used it sparingly, it'd be fast; if you downloaded stuff constantly, it'd get slow.  No "these bits are evil", just "these bits are not the bits you paid for".  If the ISP's pipe wasn't overloaded, things would be fast regardless of what level of service you were paying for.

I can't think of a better analogy, but I note that even when squashed in a bus you're not differentiated between based on which stop you get off.

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  Reply # 503881 9-Aug-2011 14:30
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The difference being you're not paying business prices for a CIR, you are paying cheap residential price for a shared network best effort connection.

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  Reply # 503911 9-Aug-2011 14:59
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Does the SSH limiting happen all the time or only in the free data periods?

I know they limit torrent speeds then but, for example, today after 10am I was getting my line speed on well seeded torrents and it was not coming from the slingshot torrent cache.


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