Radio quality from Freeview TV

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tek

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#914954 14-Oct-2013 18:40

@kiwirock thanks for that! Knowing how all this stuff works is handy.
I did purchase a circular FM antenna today which has made a small difference, as there are still fuzzies on GeorgeFM (EVERY other station I don't like is crystal clear now tho.. -.-).
I will still buy Freeview box tomorrow and see if there is any improvement.

Btw, the Tuner I'm using is inside an Integra DTR-40.3. Also a pic of the antenna I got below. (I posted it above, but it doesn't seem to display correctly)

nitrotech

1285 posts

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#915040 14-Oct-2013 20:51

kiwirock:
muzzman: Thanks for the answers and comments. Seems like radio is still very much the poor cousin in terms or quality transmission.

I bought a new system yesterday and think that in the meantime I will stick with FM, plus also use internet radio off the laptop into the system. Am also going to experiment with internet radio off my android smartphone. Can't get sound from the LCD TV anyway because it does not have any sound output. It's a nice Samsung 40" but the bottom of the line (read cheap) model, LA40D503.

I assume when it is noted above to use the external aerial for FM that the connection should be made to the satellite dish, rather than the terrestrial HD aerial which I also have. Or would both work?
Is it simply a matter or using a splitter?

Yeah radio is not exactly in to sound quality, only advertising and programming.

Storage is usually MPEG Layer-II, distribution is usually MPEG Layer-II, then to get it on to Freeview it's another layer of Layer-II audio encoding for satellite, not sure if ti's AAC or Layer-II for UHF service.

FM is one step less in the line of digital lossy compression, but then it's only 15KHz wide and some sound quality is sacrificed in split HF limiting after pre-emphasis in on-air audio processing and clipping to stay within the legal limits of frequency deviation. Then there's multipath and stereo image loss due to its matrix encoding of stereo.

Either way, they both have cons. But I prefer to listen off Freeview Satellite for less noise than a home antenna setup.

If the transmission is circular, polarisation doesn't mean much if you don't have a circular receive antenna. Using a linear antenna for circular polarisation you've already lost 3dB. Some use 45 degrees linear, the majority vertical. The right meter can go a really long way in a good FM antenna install.

If you're close by a transmission tower, I wouldn't go getting a directional antenna, it may overload the FM receiver input stage. A good antenna needs to be setup just as good.

MPEG-II has not been used for radio distribution for the 2 main groups in circa 3 years it's now via DVB RX's encoded in AAC TRN uses 128kbps streams even with the limitations of FM it should sound better than the low quality of Freeview and obviously if listening in Auckland it's straight from the studio to the sky tower via link (usually MPX)

richms

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#915043 14-Oct-2013 20:52

George sounds bad on all the cars I drive. Don't think it's your antenna

Richard rich.ms

kiwirock

685 posts

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#915394 15-Oct-2013 13:20

nitrotech:
MPEG-II has not been used for radio distribution for the 2 main groups in circa 3 years it's now via DVB RX's encoded in AAC TRN uses 128kbps streams even with the limitations of FM it should sound better than the low quality of Freeview and obviously if listening in Auckland it's straight from the studio to the sky tower via link (usually MPX)

3 years would sound about close. It was about then when I had RadioWorks in Southland's old satellite receivers here after they did a full refresh of their rack gear. They were only Layer-II StarGuide II units but I wasn't sure if they switched to AAC in the process. They still use ISS9 I believe but I forget who took over StarGuide's system.

Either way, they really don't sound that flash down here, especially not against the local community access which uses Layer-III for storage and analogue STL's.

I thought TRN down here were still using MPEG as they were using Barix ethernet audio decoders for incoming network feeds. I'm not sure if they were receiving network feeds by IP over Satellite or Telco but I don't recall a c or ku dish on their roof here.

kiwirock

685 posts

Ultimate Geek

#915399 15-Oct-2013 13:22

tek: @kiwirock thanks for that! Knowing how all this stuff works is handy.
I did purchase a circular FM antenna today which has made a small difference, as there are still fuzzies on GeorgeFM (EVERY other station I don't like is crystal clear now tho.. -.-).
I will still buy Freeview box tomorrow and see if there is any improvement.

Btw, the Tuner I'm using is inside an Integra DTR-40.3. Also a pic of the antenna I got below. (I posted it above, but it doesn't seem to display correctly)

It's round yes, but I don't think that's circular polarised as there's no vertical element to it.

ilovemusic

1439 posts

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#915455 15-Oct-2013 14:32

the tuners in most avrs are pretty crap too.

pjamieson

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#922439 27-Oct-2013 13:38

gareth41: Aucklands FM stations broadcast from the skytower and use circular polarization (eirp is in the vicinity of 6kW I believe), I dont think there are any at Waiatarua but correct me if im wrong, so you need to use a directional antenna aimed at the skytower and as mentioned previously mount it at 45deg. You will also have much better luck using a car radio as these are more sensitive than the average home hifi system.

edit: another note, if your receiver has a mono function, use this if reception is weak and you wont get as much hiss and will reduce the effects of multipath distortion associated with stereo.

The main stations are 50kW, there's a group of 15k and two x 7k because they're on non-standard spacings. When they were at Waiatarua they were all mostly on 80kW (there has been no FM up there in about 10 years).

Freq Station dBW Watts
89.40 Newstalk ZB 47.0 50,119
90.20 The Rock 47.0 50,119
91.00 ZM 47.0 50,119
91.80 More FM 47.0 50,119
92.60 RNZ Concert 47.0 50,119
93.40 The Breeze 47.0 50,119
94.20 The Edge 47.0 50,119
96.10 Flava 47.0 50,119
97.40 Classic Hits 47.0 50,119
98.20 Easy Mix 47.0 50,119
99.00 Radio Hauraki 47.0 50,119
99.80 Life FM 47.0 50,119
100.60 Radio Live 47.0 50,119
102.20 Kiwi FM 47.0 50,119
105.40 Coast 47.0 50,119
88.60 Mai FM 42.0 15,849
101.40 RNZ National 42.0 15,849
103.80 Niu FM 42.0 15,849
104.60 Planet 104.6FM 42.0 15,849
106.20 Big Radio 42.0 15,849
95.00 BFM 41.0 12,589
93.80 Solid Gold 39.0 7,943
96.60 George FM 39.0 7,943

The two stations I listen to are the lowest power, but I live in the CBD, so no worries.

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richms

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#922532 27-Oct-2013 16:32

Probably explains why george is so crappy when driving around and the others are mostly fine. Particually in the CBD, and elevated areas like driving over the harbour bridge.

Richard rich.ms

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