Radio quality from Freeview TV

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muzzman

3 posts

Wannabe Geek

#108467 29-Aug-2012 20:18

What is the quality of the digital signal that is used for the radio that comes with Freeview?
This all started because I am about to buy a new sound system and realized I don't understand the basics.

If I listen to say, Concert FM from the tv into a sound system, how does that quality compare to the normal FM signal.

Is the Concert FM signal in stereo on FM?
Is the Concert TV signal in stereo?
I assume the direct stream of concert radio is best from the tv?
I gather there is not any other digital radio publicly available in Auckland?

I have spent some hours trying to work out these answers on the net - but have not won. Perhaps they are TOO simple!

Thanks for any assistance.

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#678934 29-Aug-2012 20:20

Its pretty bad on freeview TBH, Good FM will sound better, the problem is most people have shocking FM and equate quieting with a good signal, which it isnt. Multipathing makes a mess of FM.

Richard rich.ms

ilovemusic

1439 posts

Uber Geek

#679385 30-Aug-2012 17:49

what he said ^

for best fm get a good tuner and hook it up to a good aerial, probably outdoor.

depending on your location using your tv aerial should work well too.

answers to your q's;

1. yes
2. yes
3. digital audio from tv or separate tuner to your amplifer or avr for best sound.
4. dunno, not in orks.

dontpanic42

1574 posts

Uber Geek

#679399 30-Aug-2012 18:34

For what it's worth, I just recorded the Radio NZ Concert stream off Freeview HD/UHF, and here are the results.

Taken from MediaInfo Lite:
Stream length: 1min 30secs
Average bitrate: 132kbps
Codec: HE-AAC (LATM)
Sampling rate: 48.0 KHz

Playing it through VLC reports a bitrate of 96kbps, though.

To me, it still sounds vastly inferior to even a good quality FM signal.
It sounds dull and lifeless. The higher end instruments, such as the violin etc, sound very mulled. Even more so than what you would expect from a 96kbps mp3 file.

It's sounds like I've just gone all pretentious and described a bad wine, but it really is what it sounds like.
I can see why they chose to get rid of the "HD" part of the Freeview terrestrial branding. Especially when they continue to use the abomination that is HE-AAC.

Thankfully, 1, 2, 3 now use Dolby Digital (AC3) full time.

Testerpot

45 posts

Geek

#679448 30-Aug-2012 20:25

Radio New Zealand National which broadcasts in Mono on the FM frequencies is stereo on freeview..got that badboy cranking through my stereo....more convenient than my PC and subjectively I think it sounds better than my tuner in mono.

muzzman

3 posts

Wannabe Geek

#679594 31-Aug-2012 09:46

Thanks for the answers and comments. Seems like radio is still very much the poor cousin in terms or quality transmission.

I bought a new system yesterday and think that in the meantime I will stick with FM, plus also use internet radio off the laptop into the system. Am also going to experiment with internet radio off my android smartphone. Can't get sound from the LCD TV anyway because it does not have any sound output. It's a nice Samsung 40" but the bottom of the line (read cheap) model, LA40D503.

I assume when it is noted above to use the external aerial for FM that the connection should be made to the satellite dish, rather than the terrestrial HD aerial which I also have. Or would both work?
Is it simply a matter or using a splitter?

gareth41

742 posts

Ultimate Geek

#680498 2-Sep-2012 19:02

muzzman:
I assume when it is noted above to use the external aerial for FM that the connection should be made to the satellite dish, rather than the terrestrial HD aerial which I also have. Or would both work?
Is it simply a matter or using a splitter?

That would work to a certain degree if you have a strong fm signal, but its not the proper method for receiving fm stations. ideally you want a multi-element FM antenna, preferably 4 sets of elements and each one the correct length for 4 freqs which are spaced out in the fm band. If anything else but a proper fm antenna would work, it would be a tv vhf antenna as the longer elements are a closer match for the wave length of the fm freqs.

richms

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#680519 2-Sep-2012 19:34

I bought the biggest FM antenna that clayworth sold and put it up inorder to get a LPFM, and within a week some other prick started up 0.2MHz away much closer wiping it out :(

But it really does make a difference to the clarity on the non overprocessed stations. The sound is absolutly fanbloodytastic, the edge and ZM still sound like utter swill.

Richard rich.ms

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gareth41

742 posts

Ultimate Geek

#680522 2-Sep-2012 19:46

richms: I bought the biggest FM antenna that clayworth sold and put it up inorder to get a LPFM, and within a week some other prick started up 0.2MHz away much closer wiping it out :(

But it really does make a difference to the clarity on the non overprocessed stations. The sound is absolutly fanbloodytastic, the edge and ZM still sound like utter swill.

Yea ZM's audio quality is not the best, a lot of compression. Maifm is probably one of the best i've heard in terms of audio quality.

richms

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#680523 2-Sep-2012 19:48

gareth41:
Yea ZM's audio quality is not the best, a lot of compression. Maifm is probably one of the best i've heard in terms of audio quality.

Shame about the content ;)

Richard rich.ms

tek

112 posts

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#914742 14-Oct-2013 12:36

Anyone able to give a review on the sound quality of GeorgeFM on the satellite freeview stream?
I don't get great fm signal due to a massive trash hill in east tamaki and their web stream has a weird distortion on the right channel.

B1GGLZ

1961 posts

Uber Geek

#914752 14-Oct-2013 12:45

muzzman:

I assume when it is noted above to use the external aerial for FM that the connection should be made to the satellite dish, rather than the terrestrial HD aerial which I also have. Or would both work?
Is it simply a matter or using a splitter?

Neither is suitable.
Why would you connect to a satellite dish. It points at the sky and is way above FM and Freeview frequencies.
Likewise your UHF antenna is far too small.
You need a dedicated FM antenna pointing at whichever transmitter you wish to listen to and which uses slant (45 degree) polarisation.

B1GGLZ

1961 posts

Uber Geek

#914758 14-Oct-2013 12:58

I'm in Auckland with direct line of site to Waiatarua and Freeview Radio is next to useless here. I have full signal strength/quality on my PC Tuner card and get continuous breaks and drop-outs at any time of day or night.
No apparent reason for it. The TV channels are OK but the radio channels are terrible.
On the other hand the FM input on the Freeview/FM tuner card is connected to the wire dipole that came with the card which is tangled and lying on the floor and works perfectly.

tek

112 posts

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#914770 14-Oct-2013 13:18

Ok, thanks guys.

I just got my boss to buy an fm antenna to try out. I shall make a pass on a freeview box then.

gareth41

742 posts

Ultimate Geek

#914840 14-Oct-2013 14:46

Aucklands FM stations broadcast from the skytower and use circular polarization (eirp is in the vicinity of 6kW I believe), I dont think there are any at Waiatarua but correct me if im wrong, so you need to use a directional antenna aimed at the skytower and as mentioned previously mount it at 45deg. You will also have much better luck using a car radio as these are more sensitive than the average home hifi system.

edit: another note, if your receiver has a mono function, use this if reception is weak and you wont get as much hiss and will reduce the effects of multipath distortion associated with stereo.

kiwirock

685 posts

Ultimate Geek

#914884 14-Oct-2013 16:11

muzzman: Thanks for the answers and comments. Seems like radio is still very much the poor cousin in terms or quality transmission.

I bought a new system yesterday and think that in the meantime I will stick with FM, plus also use internet radio off the laptop into the system. Am also going to experiment with internet radio off my android smartphone. Can't get sound from the LCD TV anyway because it does not have any sound output. It's a nice Samsung 40" but the bottom of the line (read cheap) model, LA40D503.

I assume when it is noted above to use the external aerial for FM that the connection should be made to the satellite dish, rather than the terrestrial HD aerial which I also have. Or would both work?
Is it simply a matter or using a splitter?

Yeah radio is not exactly in to sound quality, only advertising and programming.

Storage is usually MPEG Layer-II, distribution is usually MPEG Layer-II, then to get it on to Freeview it's another layer of Layer-II audio encoding for satellite, not sure if ti's AAC or Layer-II for UHF service.

FM is one step less in the line of digital lossy compression, but then it's only 15KHz wide and some sound quality is sacrificed in split HF limiting after pre-emphasis in on-air audio processing and clipping to stay within the legal limits of frequency deviation. Then there's multipath and stereo image loss due to its matrix encoding of stereo.

Either way, they both have cons. But I prefer to listen off Freeview Satellite for less noise than a home antenna setup.

If the transmission is circular, polarisation doesn't mean much if you don't have a circular receive antenna. Using a linear antenna for circular polarisation you've already lost 3dB. Some use 45 degrees linear, the majority vertical. The right meter can go a really long way in a good FM antenna install.

If you're close by a transmission tower, I wouldn't go getting a directional antenna, it may overload the FM receiver input stage. A good antenna needs to be setup just as good.

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