TV3 Picture quality poor

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#165406 18-Sep-2008 16:30

Can your decoder to output the source resolution? Sounds like you're telling your decoder to force it's output to 720p.
Your decoder might be making a sht job of downscaling TV3's 1080i to 720p and you might be better off passing whatever the broadcast resolution is to the TV and letting the TV take care of the scaling internally.

coolvibe

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#165410 18-Sep-2008 16:42

Jaxson: Can your decoder to output the source resolution? Sounds like you're telling your decoder to force it's output to 720p.
Your decoder might be making a sht job of downscaling TV3's 1080i to 720p and you might be better off passing whatever the broadcast resolution is to the TV and letting the TV take care of the scaling internally.

I will try that tonight I need some real HD content not SD upscaled 576i-1080i-720p or 567i -1080i-1080i I need 1080i all the way. for a good test. My neighbor has a zinwell and a full HD samsung connected via hdmi. I should probably go and see if it looks the same. I will record the signal from tv3 tonight and test it at work also. And nip around to a friends house who has a samsung 1080i set.

sbiddle

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#165411 18-Sep-2008 16:46

coolvibe:
Jaxson: Can you confirm the resolution of your panel from the manual?
Pre HDCP HDMI / DVI only input raises some doubts.....
Yep it is a 1280* 768 sony 3 lcd rear projector it can support 576p 720p 1080i

To be completely honest this could be part of the problem. While rear projection was great in it's time it's now not the best if you want good HD content, with the exception of the Sony XRD which were very nice TV's.

Being limited to component input really does limit you as PC component output isn't great and you're potentially getting 576i downscaled content via the STB you are using. Have you calibrated your TV lately?

coolvibe

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#165421 18-Sep-2008 16:59

sbiddle:
coolvibe:
Jaxson: Can you confirm the resolution of your panel from the manual?
Pre HDCP HDMI / DVI only input raises some doubts.....
Yep it is a 1280* 768 sony 3 lcd rear projector it can support 576p 720p 1080i

To be completely honest this could be part of the problem. While rear projection was great in it's time it's now not the best if you want good HD content, with the exception of the Sony XRD which were very nice TV's.

Being limited to component input really does limit you as PC component output isn't great and you're potentially getting 576i downscaled content via the STB you are using. Have you calibrated your TV lately?

This model has no calibration like the old rear projectors it has 3 tiny lcd screens just after the bulb so you never need to adjust the picture. when HD is used the tv changes mode you can no longer do any of the feateures normally available. So it definatly goes HD I also have an xbox media centre running 720p output which is crisp. My sapphire hd 2400 component output is really clean from my pc when I just us it as a monitor ihn 720p as I said before I dont really like 1080i flicker fest. I will not know for sure until I get some 1080i content tonight of tv3 csi miami is the one I will use. Perhaps it is just the 576i content that looks totally pants, I can't remember watching anything on tv3 recently beacause it looks so bad, maybe I should have waited for some real HD then check it out. It is still pretty annoying to watch though on my setup with normal tv3 none HD content.

sbiddle

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#165424 18-Sep-2008 17:06

coolvibe: My sapphire hd 2400 component output is really clean from my pc when I just us it as a monitor ihn 720p as I said before I dont really like 1080i flicker fest.

This could also be an issue - all ATI cards that offer H.264 acceleration don't cope well with NZ's H.264 interlaced content. There are numerous problems that occur and NVidia has proven to be the only reliable option if you're wanting H.264 hardware acceleration.

What PVR software are you actually using and what codec and codec settings are you using?

Jaxson

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#165570 19-Sep-2008 09:25

Yep the plot thickens. Ati 2400, no hdcp hdmi, rear projection. Sbiddle has done a LOT of work on htpc configs for freeview uhf HD, he knows from experience.

Yes, go next door and see what your neighbours looks like when a TV3 HD show comes on. I think you may be surprised at the quality. If you have a set top box, the zinwell has locked outputs on component and hdmi will not work to dvi, even if the dvi is hdcp enabled, (I know from first hand experience). Get an ET box and you may be surprised at the output and that would be easy and comparatively cheap mate.

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coolvibe

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#165571 19-Sep-2008 09:26

Ha problem solved I think. Here are my findings tv3 forced to any other resolution than 1080i causes jerky motion on all the equipment I have tested on. All set tob boxes when viewed in sd or 720p watching tv3 you get the jerky motion. I recorded tv3 csi miami. watching in 720p (stb) or sd (mysky box) motion is jerky. As soon as I flicked to 1080i smooth and sweet. So there we have it my problem solved no doubt as soon as all the stb start to dispay sd correctly which none of them do apart from the zinwell. People will not see the issue unless they record to a non HD hdd recorder and playback.
Unfortunatly my freeview box causes my tv to loose vertical sync and bumps the screen a bit at 1080i so I forced the colour mode to ntsc. I know I know frame rates and all that nitty gritty colour looks awfull but the jerk has gone. for more information about frame rates and interlacing see http://100fps.com it goes the whole nine yards in explaining all.
So the set tob boxes are causing the jerk not my tv.
Again why did tv3 decide that interlacing was a good idea they must be blind to SD.
Rule of thumb always let the set top box switch to the native resolution of the signal(auto), this does not work on some set top boxes but it does on the vantage. Recording tv3 in sd may have undesired effects. I am just about to test recorded tv3 hd content on a different monitor at 1080i to reconfirm all of this..

coolvibe

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#165573 19-Sep-2008 09:35

sbiddle:
coolvibe: My sapphire hd 2400 component output is really clean from my pc when I just us it as a monitor ihn 720p as I said before I dont really like 1080i flicker fest.

This could also be an issue - all ATI cards that offer H.264 acceleration don't cope well with NZ's H.264 interlaced content. There are numerous problems that occur and NVidia has proven to be the only reliable option if you're wanting H.264 hardware acceleration.

What PVR software are you actually using and what codec and codec settings are you using?

DVBviewer using powerdvd8 codecs it works just. But as you say it was a mission on xp to get this to work. I have still not managed to get gbpvr to work with HA and the 2400 drivers. that is another thread on the gbpvr forums

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#165575 19-Sep-2008 09:38

coolvibe: Again why did tv3 decide that interlacing was a good idea they must be blind to SD.

Good to see you have it sorted!

As for why TV3 went down the 1080i path - the issue here is that most HD content (ie TV shows) are all received in 1080i, particularly USA stuff because as you know the pixel count in a 1080i image is higher than 720p. Very little content is actually filmed in 720p - it is all 1080p or 1080i but 1080p will never reastically see the light of the day as a broadcast standard due to the high bandwidth requirements. The decision is then up to the broadcaster as to whether they want to transmit it in it's native format as TV3 have done or convert it to progressive scan like TVNZ have done and transmit everything in 720p.

coolvibe

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#165589 19-Sep-2008 10:15

I would suppose now the only way people can watch TV3HD on MYsky correctly is to buy a hdmi capable reciever or a hdfury2 to convert the output to component. at its intended resolution.

HDfury2 Features:

Main features:

HDMI input
Component (YPbPr) and VGA (RGBHV) video output
Sound output in both Analog and digital Optical through an innovative 3.5mm combo jack

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Perfectly centered image in all standard NTSC/PAL modes (see below)
Performs Colour Depth Upscaling in all modes (see below)
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Accept third party accessories on its output
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Software upgradeable (EDID and Firmware) to never become obsolete!
Custom profiling to match any display requirements or to limit output resolution
Screen position adjustment through firmware
Smaller and is able to handle and include more technology innovations than the original HDfury
HDTV ready (480i/480p/576i/576p/720p/1080i/1080p48/50/60/72 compatible)

DVI 1.0 compliant

HDMI 1.1 and 1.2 ready

HDMI 1.3 interoperable

HDCP compatible with embedded keys loaded

HDCP ready

price ouch $249 USD

Jaxson

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#165596 19-Sep-2008 10:48

Sorry to disappoint but TV3 on my displays works fine. Looks good if I set my set top box to output either the native broadcast resolution 1080i or set the box to downscale for me and output 720p.

I suspect it may be your TV's ability to work with the native 1080i resolution, or your freeview sources ability to downscale this properly to 720p to pass to your TV.

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coolvibe

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#165598 19-Sep-2008 11:09

Jaxson:
Sorry to disappoint but TV3 on my displays works fine. Looks good if I set my set top box to output either the native broadcast resolution 1080i or set the box to downscale for me and output 720p.

I suspect it may be your TV's ability to work with the native 1080i resolution, or your freeview sources ability to downscale this properly to 720p to pass to your TV.

Have you tried mysky hdi ?. Out of the box the SD picture was total garbage horizontal line duplication abound. After the firmware upgrade sd was ok on tv1 box etc but tv3 is still bad because they are sending the HD signal and I cannot switch to 1080i due to hdcp bull. It is a total bag of sheet. If any one knows how to turn of the restriction please PM me. I dont want to spend $249 US unless I really have to.

BazNZ

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#165607 19-Sep-2008 11:51

I have Freeview HD and MySkyHDi. TV3 looks great on both while 1080i produces the best picture quality with much more brighter colours and crisp sharper pictures than 720p. I have a Panasonic Full HD 1080p TV though which could possibly make all the difference.

coolvibe

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#165610 19-Sep-2008 12:11

BazNZ: I have Freeview HD and MySkyHDi. TV3 looks great on both while 1080i produces the best picture quality with much more brighter colours and crisp sharper pictures than 720p. I have a Panasonic Full HD 1080p TV though which could possibly make all the difference.

Just check out standard definition tv3 you see what I mean whan an object or person moves accross the screen it is not smooth. compared to 1080i. HDMI will be completely different than component as you are going digital all the way. Smoothness of motion has nothing to do with HD resolution.

Jaxson

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#165612 19-Sep-2008 12:15

Way less than $249 us gets you an ET box from satlink that does not have restricted component out and does not have hdcp on hdmi out.

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