New Freeview HD hardware: eXtra Terrestrial Freeview HD tuner

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69 posts

Master Geek

#180508 26-Nov-2008 19:24

Peter, excuse my terse response, but that is complete rubbish.
I now run 3 boxes in various configurations (to demo to customers). I have 1 with HDMI connected and NEVER get audio dropouts. I connect in Parallel a coax output and it drops out. Same box, same feeds to 2 different amps. That my friend has nothing to do with signal, it has something to do with the software.
And by the way. As I have pointed out many times. I have clear line of sight to Te Aroha. I get ZERO interference from the infill, I have dual feeds from my Aerial, one through an amplifier and one direct. All in top quality RG6 and all now using F connectors. So I can rule out signal, in fact I possible have too good a signal and am going to try some attenuators. I agree you can't rely on the signal indicator on the ET box as it also seems to have a bug in that I can get it to read higher signal strength by dropping my signal quality.
But as I said, the audio drop out is nothing to do with signal.It only does it on the Optical (Coax) output, not on AV or HDMI.
The above does not change the fact that the ET is a very good box with good support and great future potential. It just means it still has some minor issues to resolve (as does every HD DTT box that I have tried). The good thing is that as has been shown in the last few weeks there is great support right here in NZ that can quickly turn out new firmware to fix problems as they are identified.
Mark.

pete9321

105 posts

Master Geek
Inactive user

#180510 26-Nov-2008 19:30

another popint a engineer suggested to us, is some sort of mismatch betw. box and optical input...?

Garglo

49 posts

Geek

#180514 26-Nov-2008 20:00

The OPTICAL AUDIO DROPOUT ISSUE

WHERE IS THE VILLIAN ?

Is it the transmission?
Is it the receiver?
Is it the Optical cable?
Is it your 5.1 Dolby Digital surround sound amplifier?

It could also be a combination of some of these.

This UK thread on Optical Audio Dropouts Dolby Digital 5.1, has been going from 1st April 2007 and still ongoing unresolved even now.

Reading through the 6 pages has been exhausting. http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=558633

They identify problem amplifiers as Denon, Sony, Kenwood, Tag, Pioneer, Onkyo, NAD even Yamaha. Panasonic appears to be better than the most of these, but still not perfect.

While we are not the same as the UK, they have the SKY HD and BBC HD services. The problem is only with SKY HD.

To sort this out there needs to be more information in the reporting from you users. We want the dont have a problem and also the we have a problem reports.

LETS HAVE REPORTS STATING:

TV Channel
Programme being watched
Receiver
Amplifier
Have a problem, identify the programme, a time point or a dialogue point where dropouts occurred
Don't have a problem

Thanks

wiredr

203 posts

Master Geek

#180525 26-Nov-2008 20:40

i have just loaded the latest upgrade and can report several non events.

clock does not update from 12:00 am from a hard restart untill a chanell is tuned
there is no epg info from the "i " button
new chanells scaned in are not added to the chanell list
this update did not reset the machine as the other updates have done
the updates cannot be rolled back to a previous version.

the signal level bar has jumped from showing 10% to about 30% after the 24th nov update. pixel blocking has reduced to being almost not a problem.
i am also using a haupage hvr900h off the same aerial feed and have not had any problems zero zilch zip none since installing 5 months ago.

robjg63

4098 posts

Uber Geek

Subscriber

#180538 26-Nov-2008 21:40

wiredr: i have just loaded the latest upgrade and can report several non events.
clock does not update from 12:00 am from a hard restart untill a chanell is tuned
there is no epg info from the "i " button
new chanells scaned in are not added to the chanell list
this update did not reset the machine as the other updates have done
the updates cannot be rolled back to a previous version.
the signal level bar has jumped from showing 10% to about 30% after the 24th nov update. pixel blocking has reduced to being almost not a problem.
i am also using a haupage hvr900h off the same aerial feed and have not had any problems zero zilch zip none since installing 5 months ago.

I installed this upgrade last night.

If I understand then I agree on point 1 - But surely fair enough - it has to extract the time from the epg (or whereever) so it doesnt get the time until then. From then on it has the time and seems to keep it correctly. A power off at the switch on the back of the box will lose the time.

I disagree with point 2. The EPG works as before as far as I can see - First press the guide for the current channel - second press the guide for the next 2 programs for all the channels.

Point 3 - are there new channels?

Point 4 - I'm pretty sure it did a reboot once the firmware installed - is that what you meant?

Pont 5 - Havent tried to install older firmware versions

I have the same experience with the signal bar - It was about 5-10% and after the upgrade it indicates about 40% - so the indicator has changed.

Still getting a lot of break ups - every minute or so and quite badly - seems worst on tv3.

Unit also reboots periodically all by itself and restarts right back on the channel it started from.

This is my second box - Have I got another dud? I cant see what should cause a box to crash and reboot apart from software crashing the kernel or hardware failure. Is it worth trying to get a replacement for my replacement?

Robert

Nothing is impossible for the man who doesn't have to do it himself - A. H. Weiler

BadMac

69 posts

Master Geek

#180539 26-Nov-2008 21:43

Garglo: The OPTICAL AUDIO DROPOUT ISSUE
WHERE IS THE VILLIAN ?
Is it the transmission?
Is it the receiver?
Is it the Optical cable?
Is it your 5.1 Dolby Digital surround sound amplifier?

It could also be a combination of some of these.

This UK thread on Optical Audio Dropouts Dolby Digital 5.1, has been going from 1st April 2007 and still ongoing unresolved even now.

Reading through the 6 pages has been exhausting. http://www.digitalspy.co.uk/forums/showthread.php?t=558633

They identify problem amplifiers as Denon, Sony, Kenwood, Tag, Pioneer, Onkyo, NAD even Yamaha. Panasonic appears to be better than the most of these, but still not perfect.

While we are not the same as the UK, they have the SKY HD and BBC HD services. The problem is only with SKY HD.

To sort this out there needs to be more information in the reporting from you users. We want the dont have a problem and also the we have a problem reports.

LETS HAVE REPORTS STATING:
TV Channel
Programme being watched
Receiver
Amplifier
Have a problem, identify the programme, a time point or a dialogue point where dropouts occurred
Don't have a problem

Thanks

Edited because Chrome/Firefox/Safari don't like something on this site, so reverting to IE7.

pete9321

105 posts

Master Geek
Inactive user

#180545 26-Nov-2008 21:55

We have numerous clients, all working fine...one guy who sells many....uses a Yamaha...all sweet....ours is a Inspire 5.1 we use in our video production studio...

Sharesies kids

Free kids accounts - trade shares and funds (NZ, US) with Sharesies (affiliate link).

BadMac

69 posts

Master Geek

#180546 26-Nov-2008 22:02

OK, here are my configs.

The main system where I demo things has:

ET box, connected to Samsung 52A650 via HDMI (video and sound).
Also connected to Samsung 52A650 via AV out (top row).
Also connected to Sony HT via Coax.

I also have it cabled to connect to Sony HT via Optical, however if you plug into both the coax and the optical outputs at the same time, neither works??? So in the tests, I have to unplug the Coax and plug in the Optical on the back of the ET box.

Tuned to C4.
TV on with sound/picture selected via HDMI (HDMI1 if it matters).
HT on and Coax feed selected.

Result, drop outs, normally half a second up to 3 seconds, random intervals heard in the sound stream can be many minutes apart, then 2-3 in 10 seconds.

At the same time the sound via HDMI stays solid.

I have the setup so I can sit between the 2 sound stages, so I can use one ear for each source. that way you can tell if one side drops out quite clearly.

Swap HT input to Optical (and swap coax for optical on back of ET).

Same result (solid HDMI, occasional dropouts on Optical).

Next swap
TV onto AV1 input, sound stable, still drop outs on Coax and Optical.

The drop outs are just periods of silence, they do not have any picture breakup associated with them normally.

C4 isn't in HD and has no DD 5.1 signal.

I am now going to test on TV3, TV1/2 and on the HD Demo/Kordia channels (ie all the muxes with all the sound combinations).

Will post when I have finished.

Note: I am also suspecious that the problem will turn out to be related to the 5.1 or something in the TV3/C4 audio stream that the ET isn't quite handling right (hence my desire to test TV1/Kordia).

Sorry about the bad formatting before . Google Chrome browser doesn't like something in the posting/editing window and drops/screws up all the formatting when I hit "post".

Note to Peter, I have a Yamaha 663 on order (I had a loan one before and can confirm it also dropped out on Coax).
My current box is a Sony 5.1 HT. I have access to a Denon and an Onkyo which I will test tomorrow, if I can find 5 minutes.

BazNZ

258 posts

Ultimate Geek

#180593 27-Nov-2008 07:04

I also continue to get Audio dropouts through my Coax output ! But my HDMI is fine ! Not Signal as pete suggests it is the ET box that has the problem.

wiredr

203 posts

Master Geek

#180599 27-Nov-2008 07:56

i agree with baznz . the et software has problems.
i re scanned the et and base fm does not load into the chanell list

Jaxson

8042 posts

Uber Geek

Trusted

#180608 27-Nov-2008 09:22

Garglo:
They identify problem amplifiers as Denon, Sony, Kenwood, Tag, Pioneer, Onkyo, NAD even Yamaha. Panasonic appears to be better than the most of these, but still not perfect.

This is most brands! I have Pioneer 816 and use C4 to test as you can turn it up like a radio. Sometimes the dropouts come early, others much later on. In my experience the Dolby shows on TV3 are pretty good now, maybe get one dropout during those if you're lucky. The earlier update addressed this and seemed to work for DD on TV3 in my opinion. I only use the receiver for 5.1 shows but some want to use it for C4 etc and that's fair enough.

C4 is the best test for the problem now. I don't have access to gear for this, but can someone please run a zinwell to a receiver next to an ET to a receiver and listen for dropouts. If they occur but only on one we can start to see if this is broadcast, signal (?!), cable, receiver or box fault? This is the only true test to start sussing this out.

I installed clock update last night, put unit on standby and this morning the clock reads correct time. Thanks on that one!

Yes last two updates have loaded, unit reboots but then goes straight to previous channel. What wiredr is meaning is previously you had to completely reinstall everything after software update, go through the full install process. This hasn't been required the last two updates but the updates have loaded when you check the version in the install menu.

I tried the epg last night and it worked fine.

My signal level went from say 10% to roughly 50% last night after upgrade. I think previously this scale worked in reverse, maybe this has now been addressed, -can someone add an atenuator to confirm?

DaveB

1139 posts

Uber Geek
Inactive user

#180620 27-Nov-2008 10:13

BazNZ: I also continue to get Audio dropouts through my Coax output ! But my HDMI is fine ! Not Signal as pete suggests it is the ET box that has the problem.

Some of the cheaper unaccredited imports are not Dolby Laboratories certified and use a non standard audio chip. Is this ET unit certified? If so, it HAS to show the Dolby Digital Logo, if not there will be no logo and I suspect, the root of your problems.

Cheers Dave B

Hinko

273 posts

Ultimate Geek

#180622 27-Nov-2008 10:29

SIGNAL
Putting a 12dB attenuator in front of the ET (Latest firmware - the so called 21-11-2008) causes the KauKau C4 signal to increase from about 1/3 to 2/3 strength!

Perhaps what signal really means is gain?

AUDIO
Interestingly doing that exercise with the antennae not conencted but in proximity to the device the video image is lost but the C4 sound still comes through, suggesting that mot much signal is required for sound - and that the signal level is very unlikely to be the cause of audio dropouts if there is a video image.

Anyone can do this test. Hold your antenna lead a little distance away from the box and see what happens - and are audio droputs induced?

I also suspect the ET firmware is not handling some interference adequately or more likely simply not behaving properly.

I suspect that either the hardware is not up to the job (how many ET's would need replacement?) or hopefully the firmware needs tweaking.

wiredr

203 posts

Master Geek

#180638 27-Nov-2008 11:20

jaxson you said
"C4 is the best test for the problem now. I don't have access to gear
for this, but can someone please run a zinwell to a receiver next to an
ET to a receiver and listen for dropouts. If they occur but only on
one we can start to see if this is broadcast, signal (?!), cable,
receiver or box fault? This is the only true test to start sussing
this out."
i have already done this sort of test see post # 180525, i have never experienced any audio dropouts with my Haupage usb tuner
but the et is bad for this, so much so that i wont recomend or sell any ET'S untill these probs are fixed, the original ET'S did not have this problem .
♦

Garglo

49 posts

Geek

#180639 27-Nov-2008 11:21

I ASKED FOR REPORTS ON THE OPTICAL AUDIO ISSUE #WORKING OK# and with #DROPOUTS#
If you have this Optical ability then please cut and paste the list below with your answers.
Dont get off the subject please if you really want this sorted. Optical audio is working on 3 receivers I know with no problems.

LETS HAVE REPORTS STATING:

TV Channel =
Programme being watched =
Receiver =
Amplifier =
either
Dropout Audio problem, identify the programme, a time point or a dialogue point where dropouts occurred and frequency
or
No Audio problem

An example of how to fill it out

. . for those who dont still understand

TV Channel = C4
Programme being watched = "So Hot Right Now" 11am - 11.30am 27 November 08
Receiver = ET
Amplifier = Creative Audigy 2 Computer
No Audio problem

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