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Wannabe Geek


Topic # 113719 25-Jan-2013 15:58
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I am looking for the Freeview decoder that gives best performance up-scaling/de-interlacing from Std def PAL to full HD 1080p. The two PVRs that come to mind are DishTV S7090 or UltraPlus X9200HD. The added expense of the X9200HD will not be worth paying for unless it up-scales better than the S7090.

I queried the 'Freeviewshops ?tech-support?' if the UltraPlus boxes re-use the same up-scaling/de-interlacing circuitry for UltraPlus X9200HD and X920HD models, and they confirmed that they do as I would have expected.

He also said,

"ST chipsets perform best , Ali is also OK, Broadcom is good but suffers from combe effect due to lack of multi field motion adaptive deinterlacing".


Does anyone know about DishTV S7090? What chip is it using for Up-scaling/de-interlacing.
I am not totally convinced of the merits of ST chipset, as I have not heard of it or any of the others in my research.

Has anyone done benchmark testing to compare the up-scaling/de-interlacing from Std definition PAL upto Highdefinition1080p? This would probably be done from a USB plug in device and would follow the same de-interlace/scaling process as would the decoded Satellite feed.

Thanks.

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Wannabe Geek


  Reply # 750841 25-Jan-2013 16:03
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Sorry, I meant to say the added expense of the X9200HD ($750) would not be worth paying for unless it up-scales better than the S7090 ($400).
At the moment I have no idea which one would do a better job of up-scaling/de-interlacing.

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  Reply # 750849 25-Jan-2013 16:12
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Have you bothered to examine the quality of the sat transmissions??

P.S. There an old saying about not being able to make ice cream out of horse excrement.




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  Reply # 750865 25-Jan-2013 16:43
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I have both the dishtv s7090 and ultraplus x9200.    Series record is more reliable on the dishtv unit.  the dishtv is slower to bring up the guide and a bit more clunky with menu system.   Dishtv is easy enough to upgrade the hdd too 1TB if you want to.
 Personally with the upscaling I dont notice a great difference between the 2 units.
  Saying that I prefer my Ultraplus overall as I prefer the EPG on it and it just feels a more quality unit and is quicker with menu changes. I have a 26inch and 32 inch TV.   Maybe picture quality would not be as good on larger TV. I dont know as dont have large tv.  But am happy with the quality as it is.




HTPC Intel Pentium G3258 cpu, Gigabyte H97n-wifi motherboard, , 8GB DDR3 ram, onboard  graphics. Hauppuage HVR 5500 tuner,  Silverstone LC16M case, Windows 10 pro 64 bit using Nextpvr and Kodi




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Wannabe Geek


  Reply # 750868 25-Jan-2013 16:44
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I know Std definition is a pile of pooh, but we are stuck with it, as I have no line of site for Terrestrial.
Some up-scalers can do a better job than others. Some of the higher end home theater systems do a semi decent job.
The Oppo Blueray players seem to do a good job as shown using benchmark test methods.
I've got a limited budget and would like a PVR sat-box.
The Oppo is very tempting at $850, but its just a Blueray/DVD player. Note it upscales to 4K Ultra HD also.


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  Reply # 750885 25-Jan-2013 17:02
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Upscalers can't do much when the picture is terrible to start with.

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  Reply # 750889 25-Jan-2013 17:10
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alton1974: I know Std definition is a pile of pooh, but we are stuck with it, as I have no line of site for Terrestrial.


Where abouts are you? You don't necessarily need line of sight, just that you are in a terrestrial area.

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  Reply # 750891 25-Jan-2013 17:12
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Yip that's one of the great things about a digital signal. While LOS is great, it's by no means essential like it is with analogue.



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Wannabe Geek


  Reply # 750898 25-Jan-2013 18:03
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RunningMan:
alton1974: I know Std definition is a pile of pooh, but we are stuck with it, as I have no line of site for Terrestrial.


Where abouts are you? You don't necessarily need line of sight, just that you are in a terrestrial area.


I am located in Westmorland Suburb of Christchurch, problem is im on the side of a hill facing opposite to the transmitter on SugarLoaf.
I did try a high gain directional UHF aerial (91 elements from memory), standing on the roof using a broom attached to the hockey stick for extra height, without success. Funny enough I could get a better signal pointing 180deg at a reflection coming off neighboring houses.

I asked a installer to come round with a field strength meter, but he talked me into using the pre-existing Sky dish instead.

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  Reply # 750900 25-Jan-2013 18:12
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How can you get more pixels from a few pixels?

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  Reply # 750914 25-Jan-2013 19:03
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Funny enough I could get a better signal pointing 180deg at a reflection coming off neighboring houses.


Then Big Bertha might be enough to give you a stable UHF picture
http://www.dtvs.co.nz/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=3&products_id=85



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Wannabe Geek


  Reply # 750998 25-Jan-2013 21:52
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bfginger:
Funny enough I could get a better signal pointing 180deg at a reflection coming off neighboring houses.


Then Big Bertha might be enough to give you a stable UHF picture
http://www.dtvs.co.nz/index.php?main_page=product_info&cPath=3&products_id=85



Looks like something I would like to try before buy ($659); a awesomely large reflector, heaps of gain although I prefer not to have a pre-amp. If it worked, I would buy it, but for that kind of $$ I'm tired of trying stuff to be again disappointed when on-selling it for half what I paid.

I've always wanted to try some kind of phased array. But not sure how either aerial would cope with multi-path receptions coming from the same source.
We are very close vicinity of the transmitter - maybe just 5km away.

I'll ask round to see if I can find someone for advice on the tri-beam or even a phased array option. My theory isn't that sharp, but the Big Bertha doesn't look that directional, because of the tri-beam, but maybe the multi-path effects are a non-issue and this would work for me!!

I'd love to find some installation examples of the Big Bertha working- thanks for the link.



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Wannabe Geek


  Reply # 751009 25-Jan-2013 22:05
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Spyware: Have you bothered to examine the quality of the sat transmissions??

P.S. There an old saying about not being able to make ice cream out of horse excrement.


I've checked:
Signal=65-66%
Quality=51-57%

I figure the Quality is low, but error correction is working for it to even know this. And i'm not experiencing any loss of reception etc.

I'm not sure if this is what you were asking, or were you just reminding me how bad Std def really is.
I was quit happy last week watching the 26" CRT, but since buying a new 40" I can see what I was really looking at.

What I hate the most is my partner likes the picture! More so when we brought it home to find all the colours, contrast, sharpness wound up to sky heaven. Samsung are nuts with their default settings.

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  Reply # 751011 25-Jan-2013 22:12
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alton1974:
I'm not sure if this is what you were asking, or were you just reminding me how bad Std def really is.


I think this is what Spyware was getting at.

It's not so much that it's SD, but fairly low bit rate SD, meaning lots of artifacts and loss of detail which will never upscale well. A few years ago when there was more bandwidth allocated to channels (before the multiple TV1 & 3 streams), the picture was far better, and would upscale better.



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Wannabe Geek


  Reply # 751030 25-Jan-2013 22:56
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joker97: How can you get more pixels from a few pixels?


I hear what you say, but if the amount of up-scaling isn't too great, I'm still hopeful.

As for the theory, I probably know less than you.
I recall seeing somewhere that they interpolate new pixels based on adjacent pixels in 2D, these adjacent pixels themselves carry a weighting that's determined by pixels further out. Some manufacturers are claiming face recognition.
Although I know it doesn't work this way because the processing power required would be much more than what they are.



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Wannabe Geek


  Reply # 751036 25-Jan-2013 23:04
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RunningMan:
alton1974:
I'm not sure if this is what you were asking, or were you just reminding me how bad Std def really is.


I think this is what Spyware was getting at.

It's not so much that it's SD, but fairly low bit rate SD, meaning lots of artifacts and loss of detail which will never upscale well. A few years ago when there was more bandwidth allocated to channels (before the multiple TV1 & 3 streams), the picture was far better, and would upscale better.


Ok, I need to do some reading on that matter.
You are telling me its not the resolution of the frames that's my problem but as much as its the garbage information contained within the frames being displayed.


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