Terrestrial Freeview - difficult area.

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rayonline

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Topic # 198242 1-Jul-2016 16:53

Not sure if it was due to the cooler weather we've been getting pixelation with TV3. TV1 is mostly ok. Prime TV is just a black screen and our Samsung TV gives up. Basically want to know the realistic options we have. We went up the roof and adjusted it a bit which TV3 is improved but Prime TV is still pixelated but I guess better than before.

We are in sort of a valley. A slight hill bend us then it goes down the hill (some houses are lower than us) and towards the right is a hill again.

For the few years, after trying out a standard aerial, we settled on a double phased array aerial.

We do have a few TV sets of course we don't watch it at same time but the splitter does weaken the signal. I think downstairs is 2 TVs - master bedroom and lounge and the 3rd goes upstairs. Upstairs then has a 2 way splitter which 2 bedrooms.

Thoughts? Yes all cables are RG6.

Realistically in a normal area without the valley, can people get good reception to a few different terrestrial Freeview TVs? I guess many have a TV in the main room, maybe a hobby or TV room and 1 or 2 other bedrooms.

Settle for internet TV? TV1 or delayed to broadcast channels that demands less?

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Reply # 1584216 1-Jul-2016 16:56

Have you tried a signal amplifier which should be mounted by your UHF aerial.

rayonline

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Reply # 1584217 1-Jul-2016 16:59

No we haven't. The thought about no where to plug in the power put us off or having an electrican putting an extra socket in the roof space?

If it is an help with TV3 now, Samsung says we have a 50% signal with a Quality that fluctuates between 20-60%.

ajw

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Reply # 1584230 1-Jul-2016 17:05

rayonline:

No we haven't. The thought about no where to plug in the power put us off or having an electrican putting an extra socket in the roof space?

If it is an help with TV3 now, Samsung says we have a 50% signal with a Quality that fluctuates between 20-60%.

The power supply for the booster can sit behind your TV. Also have you a high gain UHF aerial.

http://www.jaycar.co.nz/p/LT3275

rayonline

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Reply # 1584237 1-Jul-2016 17:12

We did try a semi standard aerial didn't work so we used a double phased array type and settle on that with semi ok results. We also have trees and bushes behind our property and our neighbours place. Hence the phased array decision. We didn't return the aerial twice and try a extra long high gain aerial.

We were given a amp to try out, the guy said you plug it behind the TV and plug it to the wall, he said no need to plug the unit at the aerial. That did pretty much nothing. I've heard others saying the amp needs be outside on the aerial?

ajw

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Reply # 1584246 1-Jul-2016 17:20

rayonline:

We did try a semi standard aerial didn't work so we used a double phased array type and settle on that with semi ok results. We also have trees and bushes behind our property and our neighbours place. Hence the phased array decision. We didn't return the aerial twice and try a extra long high gain aerial.

We were given a amp to try out, the guy said you plug it behind the TV and plug it to the wall, he said no need to plug the unit at the aerial. That did pretty much nothing. I've heard others saying the amp needs be outside on the aerial?

The amplifier is mounted by the aerial, the power supply sits inside behind your TV. The power to the masthead amplifier is fed via coaxial cable connected to the power supply and the masthead amplifier.

Apsattv

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Reply # 1584250 1-Jul-2016 17:26

Can you post a photo of the antenna?

What is the BER reading on your signal screen? if you hold down the info button on your samsungs remote for a few seconds and the signal reading screen will display.

Any sort of booster masthead amplifer should got right at the top of the mast as near to antenna as you can get. It will be fed with power supply which goes behind you tv. It is powered through your existing co-ax.

ajw

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Reply # 1584252 1-Jul-2016 17:27

Have a look at this video. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7tR1WRe2Mbo

Go to 4.00 and see how he fits the amplifier.

gzt

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Reply # 1584253 1-Jul-2016 17:31

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Can you find out if it works without the splitter? If all cables into it have plugs then they are easy to join each in turn and observe results. Female/female adaptor may be required.

But yeah aerial amp could be the solution unless it's a bad splitter or fault on one leg/tv.

Rikkitic

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Reply # 1584258 1-Jul-2016 17:39

Don't know if any of this is relevant but it might be worth considering: We have a similar installation, rural, hill in the way but were were able to get good reception on all channels by raising the hi-gain triplex antenna 4 or 5 metres above the roof. Recently started having reception issues with some channels pixilating. It turned out to be the antenna connector, which had worn from being twisted. I cut it off, replaced it and reception is perfect again. If yours was good before but now is not, it is worth checking everything in the antenna chain, especially if you are using splitters and the like. Try making a direct connection from the antenna to the TV to check it. You can get gender changer adaptors from Jaycar for nearly everything if you need to match up a couple of incompatible connectors to do the test.

I reject your reality and substitute my own. - Adam Savage

rayonline

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Reply # 1584287 1-Jul-2016 17:51

The aerial is like this

Link to aerial

I said to the guy, this was a few yrs ago. Do we have to put this on the aerial he said no. He said the amp which is inside the house feeds the signal up to the aerial.

After the pushing the INFO button it shows:

TV3:

Bit Error Level 30-90 (fluctuates)

Signal 50

Quality 50

Prime TV:

Bit Error Level 2000

Signal 54

Quality 0

When we set this up at the start few yrs ago. Yes, if just use direct to the lounge TV the stats are better and you don't get that pixelation.

Apsattv

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Reply # 1584307 1-Jul-2016 18:24

Sorry I was bit unclear I meant post of a photo of your Installation

including what your saying is an amplifier. Which I expect is just a distribution amplifier /splitter

rayonline

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Reply # 1584309 1-Jul-2016 18:28

Photo of installation? You mean roof aerial and environment? Sketch diagram of cables etc?

I was under the house to check if wires were damaged but nope. I took a photo of it with my phone. A similar one is behind the cupboard upstairs for the 2 rooms.

Splitter under the house.

This one under the house is a 3 way output. 1x lounge, 1x leading upstairs and 1x not used.

Not anymore but in the past I was asked to try this to no avail .. but the guy said I could leave the unit inside:

Amp link but don't have this anymore. I recall the blue case it came with.

B1GGLZ

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Reply # 1584358 1-Jul-2016 19:30

rayonline:

Not anymore but in the past I was asked to try this to no avail .. but the guy said I could leave the unit inside:

Amp link but don't have this anymore. I recall the blue case it came with.

The Amp must be installed as close to the antenna as possible where it will amplify the weak signal. Only the power supply stays inside behind the TV. The downloadable instructions on that link site shows you how to install.

Having it at the TV end of the co-ax is useless as it amplifies an even weaker signal plus all the noise the co-ax picks up.

tangerz

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Reply # 1584364 1-Jul-2016 19:41

rayonline:

Photo of installation? You mean roof aerial and environment? Sketch diagram of cables etc?

I was under the house to check if wires were damaged but nope. I took a photo of it with my phone. A similar one is behind the cupboard upstairs for the 2 rooms.

Splitter under the house.

This one under the house is a 3 way output. 1x lounge, 1x leading upstairs and 1x not used.

Not anymore but in the past I was asked to try this to no avail .. but the guy said I could leave the unit inside:

Amp link but don't have this anymore. I recall the blue case it came with.

OK. So by the figures you've given you're in a pretty marginal signal area. To get reliable reception your best bet is to set up as follows:

High gain antenna -> SHORT RG6 -> Masthead amp -> RG6 -> Splitter -> RG6 to outlets (Masthead Amp power supply attached to 'power pass' output)

The guy who told you the amp could be inside was plain wrong. It needs to be as close to the antenna as possible. The reason for this is cable loss/attenuation. Even GOOD RG6 has attenuation of around 18dB/100m. That means even a shortish 15-20m length from antenna to TV has a 3-3.5dB loss... that is over half you signal strength lost in the cable run! (-3.5dB is a 50% loss)

Add to that even a two way splitter has an insertion loss of 3.5db (another 50% loss) your TV is only now getting 25% of the signal available at the antenna output. That is why you put the Masthead Amp as close to the antenna as possible. That way you are amplifying the signal when it is strongest (and when signal to noise ratio is greatest... this is key!) If your masthead amp gives you, say, a 10dB gain, in the above situation you would end up with +3dB (10 - 3.5 - 3.5 = 3) of signal at the TV outlet (almost double what was available at the antenna output!)

Trying to use the amp inside doesn't work because first, the signal it has to amplify is much weaker, but more importantly, the signal to noise ratio is greatly reduced!

So in short, you have a good high gain antenna so no need to change that. What you need is a Masthead Amp, properly installed (on the mast as the name suggests!) That should give you good signal on all outlets in the house.

(B1GGLEZ beat me to it!)

rayonline

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Reply # 1584378 1-Jul-2016 20:19

On my phone. Laptop won't logon with security check. My own rooms too cold.

The first splitter is under the house. Does the amp power plug need to be there? Possible aerial- mast amp - splitter - one goes upstairs other goes downstairs. Downstairs next to tv I out the power plug.

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