NO freeviewHD PVRs???

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wellygary

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#20963 11-Apr-2008 09:17

according to TVNZ in this computerworld article, they will be enforcing a no record option on all their HD broadcasts

"“It is a characteristic of this interface that no recording can be carried out or, in other words, you will not be able to record any HDTV signal. This is a worldwide requirement of those agencies that own the distribution rights to HDTV content,” says TVNZ.

Any recording of the high-definition digital signals will have to be done in standard definition, says TVNZ."

http://computerworld.co.nz/news.nsf/news/5F522962FDEB7FDACC257423007F9807

I guess no one has told this guy about HTPCs :)

mentalinc

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#122779 11-Apr-2008 09:43

im sure there will be devices that allow it all they need to do is ignore the HDCP stuff.
sure it wont get the freeview stamp of approval.

But yes HTPC may be the best option

"However, such recorders are available overseas and Allen didn’t discount the possibility of illegal interface electronic devices emerging here which would make high-definition recording possible in New Zealand."

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sbiddle

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#122786 11-Apr-2008 10:01

You really have to wonder what knowledge these guys have when they open their mouths!

The plans are to introduce a Freeview|HD capable PVR unit and HD broadcasts will be able to recorded to HDD. It's simply a matter of ensuring that the unit doesn't strip the ICT flag therefore ensuring that content is recorded to the HDD with the ICT flag and the player enforces the ICT flag on playback meaning that HD will only be available for the HDMI output and component is downscaled to 576i. A requirement of this is also that files cannot be copied off the unit by way of an Ethernet connection which is also commonplace on many PVR units.

As pointed out however it's very easy to bypass the ICT flag and the fact there already plenty of people recording HDTV content in NZ to their PVR's really shows what a waste of time having a standard that broadcasters are forced to impliment that can be so easily bypassed.

Nightwyrm

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#122813 11-Apr-2008 12:01

Any perceived impact on PlayTV for PS3 (whenever it finally comes out)?

Official Sony Announcement: PlayTV’s two TV tuners are High Definition ready and are able to view, record and play back High Definition signals in full HD1080P to fully complement PS3’s already impressive High Definition credentials.

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Klathman

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#122815 11-Apr-2008 12:12

Have a look on thegreenbutton sometime. Looks like ICT is becoming a pain for VMC guys in the US and Canada as the broadcasters are randomly switching it on and off and yet they have admited that their PVRs ignore it. Last I saw MS were still trying to figure out a solution without annoying the broadcasters which seems ironic considering they're the ones causing the issue in the first place.

lchiu7

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#122817 11-Apr-2008 12:28

sbiddle:
.. ICT flag therefore ensuring that content is recorded to the HDD with the ICT flag and the player enforces the ICT flag on playback meaning that HD will only be available for the HDMI output and component is downscaled to 720p. ..

Do you mean downscaled to 576p? If it comes out as 720p then there is really no loss

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old3eyes

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#122842 11-Apr-2008 13:14

lchiu7:
sbiddle:
.. ICT flag therefore ensuring that content is recorded to the HDD with the ICT flag and the player enforces the ICT flag on playback meaning that HD will only be available for the HDMI output and component is downscaled to 720p. ..

Do you mean downscaled to 576p? If it comes out as 720p then there is really no loss

It is if you want to watch it in native HD format..

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openmedia

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#122871 11-Apr-2008 15:01

old3eyes:
lchiu7:
sbiddle:
.. ICT flag therefore ensuring that content is recorded to the HDD with the ICT flag and the player enforces the ICT flag on playback meaning that HD will only be available for the HDMI output and component is downscaled to 720p. ..

Do you mean downscaled to 576p? If it comes out as 720p then there is really no loss
It is if you want to watch it in native HD format..

Component is downscaled to 576i

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sbiddle

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#122876 11-Apr-2008 15:07

lchiu7:
sbiddle:
.. ICT flag therefore ensuring that content is recorded to the HDD with the ICT flag and the player enforces the ICT flag on playback meaning that HD will only be available for the HDMI output and component is downscaled to 720p. ..

Do you mean downscaled to 576p? If it comes out as 720p then there is really no loss

Oops yes I do I've fixed my initial post.

old3eyes

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#122878 11-Apr-2008 15:11

openmedia:
old3eyes:
lchiu7:
sbiddle:
.. ICT flag therefore ensuring that content is recorded to the HDD with the ICT flag and the player enforces the ICT flag on playback meaning that HD will only be available for the HDMI output and component is downscaled to 720p. ..

Do you mean downscaled to 576p? If it comes out as 720p then there is really no loss
It is if you want to watch it in native HD format..

Component is downscaled to 576i

But isn't that a Freeview directive to certified STB suppliers. HDMI + HDCP only for HD viewing. I seem to remember reading of a hacked Zinwell with different software opened up the component to HD..

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Old3eyes

rugrat

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#122992 12-Apr-2008 01:08

I read that article about hacked zinwell. HD output over componet - i.e. HDCP not in the signal, but the box adds it in.
Also the ones that hacked it found you could plug a usb hard drive into it, and record programs to it as well, though last I read it they were having trouble getting sound to record, the HD video was fine though.

Also the hack broke the 8 day guide, the auto tuning - had to be done manually. Can't remember the site, though a goggle might throw it up. All up the box is capable of a lot more then what they'll allow it to do. Got software on it that cripples it from a end users view, but it pleases the content distributors.

If new laws are enforced wonder where it'll leave people that make PVR's that can record HD.

Quote from http://stuff.co.nz/4470672a28.html

It introduces an offence, carrying a sentence of a maximum fine of $150,000 or up to five years imprisonment, or both, for commercial dealings in devices, services or information designed to circumvent technological protection measures.

Sky must be pleased, they'll have the only legal HD PVR on market. Free View playing right into their hands here.

mcraenz

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#123010 12-Apr-2008 10:34

rugrat: designed to circumvent technological protection measures.

At the risk of getting off topic with a legal discussion. My HTPC doesn't circumvent technological protection measures, it just doesn't implement certain technologies; does that mean I'm not allowed to use/have/develop it?

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sbiddle

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#123022 12-Apr-2008 11:32

As pointed out there is a clear difference between implimenting copy protection and decrypting copy protection.

Freeview HD channels are not transmitted with any form of copy protection or encryption other than the ICT flag. The box however (as part of the certification process) is required to only allow transmission of HD signals via the HDMI output and part of the HDMI spec requires that HDCP be implimented. The box must also recognise the ICT flag and force downscaling of HD signals that are transmitted via component.

If a box had no idea what ICT means then it of course can't force the ICT flag to be honoured.

Running a HDCP stripper to remove the HDCP signal from the HDMI output would be seen as breaking the law as you were taking steps to circumvent copy protection. Phyiscally hacking a box to remove the ICT implimentation could also be seen as circumventing protection mehchanisims.

What would be interesting would be a legal opinion on whether loading official Zinwell (but Non official Freeview) firmware onto a Zinwell box to circumvent the ICT flag is seen as circumventing copy protection.