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Topic # 22160 19-May-2008 06:52
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"Hopes that Freeview can limit the growth of Sky have come to a crunch with TV3 negotiating a deal with Sky Television to show its high-definition channel."

NZ Herald Story

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  Reply # 131694 19-May-2008 08:30
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I completely fail to understand why the media seem to think that Freeview and Sky are competing products because they aren't!

Sky is a Pay TV provider. Freeview is a FTA television platform that is a replacement for our existing analogue TV transmissions!



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  Reply # 131695 19-May-2008 08:31
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Yep it's a pity that Mediaworks is peeing in the pocket of Sky but I can see their point of view.  Unlike TVNZ and Maori TV they don't get  buckets of tax payer  money thrown at them to go on freeview and have to front up with their own..




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  Reply # 131700 19-May-2008 09:15
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sbiddle: I completely fail to understand why the media seem to think that Freeview and Sky are competing products because they aren't!


It isn't so much the media that thinks this, but rather the Freeview group itself (and TVNZ in particular).

If Freeview was set up with a mandate restricted to facilitating the transition to digital FTA TV, then there wouldn't be a problem.  However, TVNZ are using Freeview as a means to compete with Sky.  In a rational world, the Freeview channels would be made available on Sky in the same way that the existing FTA channels are made available, thereby maximising viewers (and hence advertising revenue).

Shame we don't live in a rational world.

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  Reply # 131702 19-May-2008 09:34
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For me the path forward is obvious...

If Sky continue to put up their fees (twice in the last two years) and continue to offer 90% filler and only 10% killer I will drop them like a hot potato. We mostly watch TV2/3, some E and cartoons for the kids. The rest never get a look in 9we dont watch any sport).

However the major issue I have is that they see HD as a premium service. How many subscribers will they get if they only offer HD with the MySky 2 personal video recorder? Why should I fork out $500 (or whatever MySky costs) for a piece of kit that remains their forever?

Then again, if they let me choose the channels I want, I would drop all the crap and happlily pay for Sky Movies instead.

Just my two cents.

Trevor

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  Reply # 131715 19-May-2008 10:35
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right, so thinking about this practically.

How are Mediaworks/Sky going to implement this?

Are Sky going to put DVB-T tuners in their STB's?
Are TV3 and/or Sky going to pay Optus to beam a DVB-S2 signal to the MySkyHD boxes?
Are those of us who don't have MySkyHD boxes going to be able to use our own DVB-S2 boxes/cards to see TV3, or will they encrypt it so we need a Sky box?

So many unanswered questions....

Right if they do this, they'd better put Prime on Freeview  Yell

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  Reply # 131736 19-May-2008 11:48
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How are Mediaworks/Sky going to implement this?

Are Sky going to put DVB-T tuners in their STB's?
Are TV3 and/or Sky going to pay Optus to beam a DVB-S2 signal to the MySkyHD boxes?
Are those of us who don't have MySkyHD boxes going to be able to use our own DVB-S2 boxes/cards to see TV3, or will they encrypt it so we need a Sky box?

So many unanswered questions....


I dont think the technicalities are as mysterious as you think. TV3HD will just be another stream in one of Skys muxs like all the other streams (SD and HD) of which the TV3HD stream will be available to MySkyHD boxs, and just like the current TV3 stream on Skys NZ15 12644Mux it will be VideoGard NDS encrypted so FTAHD sat boxs wont see it.

I have it on good authority that SkyNZ have decided not to use DVB-S2, so to keep more flexible transponder usage (ie be able to slot HD streams in any mux they like rather than have dedicated S2 ones only visible to MySkyHD boxs).

Cyril

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  Reply # 131738 19-May-2008 11:53
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Do we have any idea what uptake there has been of Freeview? In the article (which seems a little skewed) they say there is very small uptake of Freeview but I suspect it is starting to get up there.

Like the last poster

Edit.. OK poster before last.. Cyril got it before I postedTongue out

it still annoys the hell outta me that Prime is not on Freeview. I can still get it as I am on Telstra digital but I cannot record on the media centre PC as that only gets freeview.

I am not sure if getting TV3 HD is all good for them though. It will just highlight even more how bad their TV1 & 2 feeds are.

I really just wish they would all stop acting like little children and work towards the greater good which will at the end of the day be best for us AND THEM.








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  Reply # 131744 19-May-2008 12:12
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thanks as always for your input Cyril.

So you are implying an HD feed doesn't necesserily have to be DVB-S2?  They would then rebroadcast the stream as MPEG4 DVB-S HD quality via satellite?

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  Reply # 131747 19-May-2008 12:26
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DVB-S2 just provides a higher density modulation scheme (8PSK) that allows more bitrate in the same bandwidth (around 40% more) than DVB-S's QPSK, but nothing stops putting an mpeg4 HD stream on the current system.

All the HD offering on Sky will be DVB-S using mpeg4 as the video codec. These streams will be slotted in with current mpeg2 SD streams, obviously only MySkyHD boxs will be pointed to decode those mpeg4 streams, and older boxs only to mpeg2 SD streams. Obviously Sky will be deploying more transponders to roll out the HD service, they have 2 more tranpsonders (4muxs) capacity to go on D1, so there should be no problem pushing several HD streams in at roughly 3 mpeg4 HD/mux or 6-8mpeg2 SD streams/mux.

Cyril

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  Reply # 131763 19-May-2008 13:39
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<blockquote>Freeview but I suspect it is starting to get up there.</blockquote>

I expect the biggest limiting factor in uptake of FV is lack of Prime. It's certainly what's holding me off, I don't want to have to be switching between the STB and analog tv when I want to watch Prime.  Which is quite often.  Especially if I want to make a PVR (again).




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  Reply # 131779 19-May-2008 14:41
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Who gets the advertising revenue when TV 1,2 and 3 are shown on Sky? I notice the ads don't seem to change from FTA. I would have thought they could claim greater ad revenue from greater viewership and thus one incentive to be there.

And of, course, Sky get more revenue from subscriptions by having them there. Win, Win mostly? (notwithstanding the monopoly issue with Sky)

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  Reply # 131780 19-May-2008 14:42
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Yeah i have to use two TV tuner cards in my HTPC to be able to have Prime and Freeview all on the go together. It's definately not an ideal solution, but it was a way for me to get FV and Prime.

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  Reply # 131785 19-May-2008 15:00
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Who gets the advertising revenue when TV 1,2 and 3 are shown on Sky? I notice the ads don't seem to change from FTA. I would have thought they could claim greater ad revenue from greater viewership and thus one incentive to be there.


TV1,2 or 3 of course, Sky are just a carrige mechanisim, no more to it than that.

Cyril



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  Reply # 131797 19-May-2008 15:35
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Then, as a taxpayer, it's surely to my advantage to have Freeview on Sky because that will bring in not only a payment from Sky but increased adverstising revenue to boot to offset some of the investment in Freeview. It's a murky equation but I doubt Sky is being handed much more monopoly/purchasing power in the process.

And, as a Sky Subsriber I would welcome the idea of not having to pay for two HD boxes and having to switch between them.

I appreciate this point has been debated much already on these forums.

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  Reply # 131807 19-May-2008 16:09
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stuzzo: Then, as a taxpayer, it's surely to my advantage to have Freeview on Sky because that will bring in not only a payment from Sky but increased adverstising revenue to boot to offset some of the investment in Freeview. It's a murky equation but I doubt Sky is being handed much more monopoly/purchasing power in the process.

And, as a Sky Subsriber I would welcome the idea of not having to pay for two HD boxes and having to switch between them.

I appreciate this point has been debated much already on these forums.


The reality at the end of the day is $

Going back many years ago Sky needed the FTA channels as selling point when they launched their digital platform. Since a lot of people in NZ couldn't get the FTA channels clearly they knew they could sign up people just so they could receive FTA channels clearly.

Move forward a few years.. Has anything changed? People can now receive the FTA channels with their own STB which means they no longer need Sky. Because HD transmissions are only available on the DVB-T platform and not DVB-S Sky could once again have a selling point for people to stick with them.

The question is - should Sky, as a commercial pay tv provider, expect to distribute FTA channels and pay nothing for the rights to carry a channel? It's an arguement that has been hammered out many times!

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