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662 posts

Ultimate Geek


#24761 1-Aug-2008 21:03
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Looking at Freeview HD setup at some stage in the distant future.

Just wondering if anyone knows of any dedicated Freeview HD Recorders that are currently available on the NZ market and if so, how much they cost?

Not interested in a PC (HTPC/media PC) solution, so don't propose one please.

I'm after something that would be the HD equivalent of current Standard Definition DVD (including Hard Disk) recorders. So, a device that "records" 720/1080 video (I am aware that it only needs to dump the raw digital stream to an appropriate media), and can playback the stored stream (via an HDMI interface I'm guessing).

I'm just wondering if any such boxes are available yet.

Thanks in advance.

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  #153440 1-Aug-2008 21:08
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Not yet but not far off.



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Ultimate Geek


  #153442 1-Aug-2008 21:20
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sbiddle: Not yet but not far off.


Thanks.


I was thinking such a device wouldn't need a H.264 decoder (and accompanying DVB-T tuner) - would plug-in between a Freeview HD Receiver and a HDTV. However, now the more I think of it, the more I think it would probably need to since I don't think any Freeview HD Receiver actually grabs the H.264 feed and forwards it undecoded (not 100% sure about that though).

I guess it could capture the HDMI stream, but, I'm not sure of the logistics of that solution.

Cheers.

 
 
 
 




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  #153455 1-Aug-2008 22:05
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zaptor: I guess it could capture the HDMI stream, but, I'm not sure of the logistics of that solution.


Okay, I guess maybe I should've titled this thread:
"Dedicated HDMI Recorder"

Because, it's looking like that's probably what I'm after.


EDIT:
Hmmm... after googling, seems that a 40+ minute TV show at 1080i24 eats up about 360GB (not including audio) over HDMI. I figured TMDS wouldn't be the most economical encoding around, but dang that's a lot.

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Geek


  #160947 30-Aug-2008 20:03
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Hey - grolschie  just posted this on another thread...

There is already a Freeview|HD compatible STB (no EPG though I believe) that apparently can record HD to a USB drive. And there is also a DVB-T/DVB-S combo STB with PVR that hopefully will be coming to the NZ market. Just some other options to consider.

(other thread here: http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=34&topicid=25734&page_no=1#160945 )


There also seems to be a bunch of them on TradeMe... but they're all satellite ones.

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  #160957 30-Aug-2008 22:50
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zaptor:
sbiddle: Not yet but not far off.


Thanks.


I was thinking such a device wouldn't need a H.264 decoder (and accompanying DVB-T tuner) - would plug-in between a Freeview HD Receiver and a HDTV. However, now the more I think of it, the more I think it would probably need to since I don't think any Freeview HD Receiver actually grabs the H.264 feed and forwards it undecoded (not 100% sure about that though).

I guess it could capture the HDMI stream, but, I'm not sure of the logistics of that solution.

Cheers.

Sorry to say but HDMI is completely built around HDCP which is copy protection intended to prevent exactly what you want to do. Isn't it great how how the big content providers get to decide how things should work in your living room, yes it is annoying but it seems the consumer has no say in the matter.

A 40minute show definitely doesn't doesn't take up 360gb. I can't remember what channel (SD or HD) a 30 minute test recording i did was, but it was 5gb.

However there are Freeview HD receivers coming with built in hard disks as mentioned, though any currently available ones aren't quite the full package (eg no EPG as the one mentioned above). The ones coming out will work just like a HDD recorder but without the DVD function.

They have been stated to come before christmas.



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Ultimate Geek


  #160981 31-Aug-2008 08:27
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ZaneO: Hey - grolschie  just posted this on another thread...

There is already a Freeview|HD compatible STB (no EPG though I believe) that apparently can record HD to a USB drive. And there is also a DVB-T/DVB-S combo STB with PVR that hopefully will be coming to the NZ market. Just some other options to consider.

(other thread here: http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?forumid=34&topicid=25734&page_no=1#160945 )


There also seems to be a bunch of them on TradeMe... but they're all satellite ones.


Thanks ZaneO.

The Vantage HD 6000 likes the STB I was looking for.



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Ultimate Geek


  #160989 31-Aug-2008 09:15
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Hi exDee,


Sorry to say but HDMI is completely built around HDCP which is copy protection intended to prevent exactly what you want to do. Isn't it great how how the big content providers get to decide how things should work in your living room, yes it is annoying but it seems the consumer has no say in the matter.


Yes, that's true - well, depending on which version of HDMI you refer to of course. Although, I didn't know for sure whether full HDCP compliance is enforced with NZ Freeview HD content. Do you know this to be the case?

Is every HDTV (and DVB-T HTPC/PVR setup) in NZ fully HDCP compliant?


A 40minute show definitely doesn't doesn't take up 360gb. I can't remember what channel (SD or HD) a 30 minute test recording i did was, but it was 5gb.


I'm guessing you're referring to the undecoded H.264 stream dumped to disk?

Not to be confused with the post-H.264 decoded (TDMS) data stream coming out the HDMI output - which you alluded to before as being protected/encrypted with HDCP.


However there are Freeview HD receivers coming with built in hard disks as mentioned, though any currently available ones aren't quite the full package (eg no EPG as the one mentioned above). The ones coming out will work just like a HDD recorder but without the DVD function.

They have been stated to come before christmas.


Yep. Looks like the only realistic option for an off-the-shelf STB at the moment is a recorder with a DVB-T tuner (like the Vantage HD 6000).

 
 
 
 


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  #160998 31-Aug-2008 10:48
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Ah i see what you mean by 360gb, makes sense now.

All freeview 'certified' STB's will enforce HDCP over HDMI, and restrict component output to standard definition. However on some non 'certified' STB's you can get HD component out and possibly no HDCP over HDMI. In regards to HDCP on HTPC's even with a HDMI connection, it isn't there at all as far as i know, perhaps vista will try and force it however, not sure.

What i was kinda getting at is there isn't really an HDMI recorder in existance i don't think, and as you've discovered recording a raw HDMI output isn't exactly efficient. The closest you'll get to recording HDMI i think would be a DVI capture card for PC.

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