TVNZ HD picture quality.. Looks bad

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old3eyes

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#36801 2-Jul-2009 08:40

Is it just me or has anyone else noticed the crap TVNZ HD feeds on Freeview ?? Last nite I watched the pilot to Fringe on TV2 and it looked grainy and sparkling. Reminded me of a mini DV footage shot in real low lite. Even the outside scenes were grainy. During a commercial break I switched to TV1 who were showing Coldcase also in HD and that looked worse. After 9.30 during a Fringe break I switched to TV3 and checked out Prison Break also in HD. It was brilliant as HD should be.

After Fringe ended I watch the first 5 minutes of Primeval which was in SD and that also looked crap.

Does TVNZ have some real problems with their program playout equipment.

I downloaded as a x264 720P copy of the first half of fringe last year to see what it was like. It looked way better than what i saw last nite..

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Old3eyes

Jaxson

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#230176 2-Jul-2009 09:08

Sorry I didn't see it so can't comment directly, but some HD shows actually introduce that film grain look. I think CSI Miami was one of them. Some shows do HD the way you'd expect it, CSI Vegas is one, but some do look kinda weird with their after effects on the video picture.

fahrenheit

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#230210 2-Jul-2009 10:59

Grain = detail.

Of the very little I saw of Fringe, it would have to be some of the finest HD I have witnessed on TVNZ.

If you are seeing grain, then you are seeing detail that is part of the original source material, or the creators intended look. This is not an anomoly of encoding or broadcasting.

old3eyes

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#230260 2-Jul-2009 12:59

fahrenheit: Grain = detail.

Of the very little I saw of Fringe, it would have to be some of the finest HD I have witnessed on TVNZ.

If you are seeing grain, then you are seeing detail that is part of the original source material, or the creators intended look. This is not an anomoly of encoding or broadcasting.

Then how come Prison Break had no grain but great detail and how come Blu-rays have great detail but no grain. The last thing I want to see in modern HD is a grainy film look from the 1940s

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Old3eyes

fahrenheit

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#230280 2-Jul-2009 13:36

Prison Break is on TV3 which of course is 1080i compared to 720p on TVNZ, so that simply isn't an apples vs apples comparison. Your display/Freeview tuner and scaling settings will also influence the end result.

The bitrates at which the content is delivered is also in the hands of the content providers. Starve the bits and you soften the overall detail, which means grain will be the first thing to go.

The master source for any HD content you see could be from a range of technologies from film or video and it can be well and truely bastardised by the time it reaches your screen.

Then there is artistic intent. I've seen countless people complain about the high grain in the 300 Blu-ray, but anyone who has seen that film at the cinema will know that over the top grain was a very intentional stylistic decision.

Lost (made by the same people as Fringe) was no different. High-grain look. It is therefore more than likely an artistic decision to exaggerate the grain for a edgy film-like appearance.

You are seeing the content as the creator intended it to be.

I blame the glut of hospital dramas on this misconception that anything other than soft studio lighting with airbrushed actors is unacceptable.

Jarno

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#230291 2-Jul-2009 14:18

Lower bitrates (i.e. more compression) would actually reduce the amount of grain, as it tends to smooth out the picture (high frequency information is lost).

fahrenheit

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#230292 2-Jul-2009 14:20

As already pointed out.

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Jaxson

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#230310 2-Jul-2009 15:28

The grain you are seeing is over the top and intentional.
Just because it's HD doesn't mean it's all going to look the same.

Checkout CSI Vegas when it cuts to the old cop guy, you can see every wrinkle on his face in a close up. By contrast when it goes to the main older CSI chick she's soft and blury, like a 1940's romantic close up, no wrinkles there.

Personally I prefer the clearer look, I find the grain thing kinda backwards, like I'm watching a HD version of a dusty film source. However, that's just me but we're all watching it how it was made and intended to look like. It's not a fault with the HD service etc.

http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?ForumId=83&TopicId=29880

http://www.geekzone.co.nz/forums.asp?ForumId=83&TopicId=23682

grolschie

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#230354 2-Jul-2009 17:16

Out of interest, and more than slightly off topic, how would this FV HD look on a 1080i 32" LCD TV set to either 720p or 1080i? Thanks in advance.

fahrenheit

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#230357 2-Jul-2009 17:20

grolschie:1080i 32" LCD TV

No such thing.

grolschie

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#230360 2-Jul-2009 17:23

fahrenheit:
grolschie:1080i 32" LCD TV

No such thing.

I meant a 1366x768 TV that is set to either 1080i or 720p input mode.

fahrenheit

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#230361 2-Jul-2009 17:25

There would be (to a keen eye) a perceptible increase in resolution (especially with native 1080i sources on TV3), but you take a hit in framerate (25 full frames per second vs 50 progressive frames per second with 720p.

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grolschie

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#230363 2-Jul-2009 17:28

Thanks for that. :-)

richms

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#230568 3-Jul-2009 08:20

And since the stuff is all made in 24fps and then sped up to 25 for pal countries the change in framerate is a non issue if you have a proper film mode capable deinterlacer. Its only sports and other video sourced stuff that benifits from 720p

Richard rich.ms

grolschie

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#230595 3-Jul-2009 09:38

Thanks richms. :-)