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Topic # 59155 28-Mar-2010 22:06
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Having a discussion and trying to advise a friend who is considering a Freeview HD box.

He seems to think based on reading "internet forums" that standard analogue FTA channels (1, 2, 3, C4, Prime), are received on his (analogue) widescreen TV in 16:9?

However I'm almost certain that the pictures I get on my similar TV are 4:3 and then stretched by the TV.

1. Is it actually possible to broadcast "anamorphic" widescreen over analogue transmission?

2. If it is possible, does it happen in NZ for any of our FTA channels?

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  Reply # 312228 28-Mar-2010 22:18
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I dont know for sure, but I don't see why not. It's just a 16:9 frame squished into 4:3 so, why not?

Having said that, no, in NZ, FTA analogue is 4:3 frame. I think it's actually a 14:9 frame letterboxed in 4:3 but it's not 16:9.

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  Reply # 312230 28-Mar-2010 22:19
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1) Yes - Also HD - but never here - Have a look for PAL-Plus on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broadcast_television_systems
2) Not that I know of




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  Reply # 312233 28-Mar-2010 22:27
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bazzer: ...in NZ, FTA analogue is 4:3 frame. I think it's actually a 14:9 frame letterboxed in 4:3 but it's not 16:9.

Yes, that's correct, it is 14:9 letterboxed.

This was done so that analogue viewers see more of the frame than would have been the case if broadcasts had remained at 4:3.

However, the trade-off is the thin black bars at top and bottom.





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  Reply # 312243 28-Mar-2010 22:50
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grant_k:
bazzer: ...in NZ, FTA analogue is 4:3 frame. I think it's actually a 14:9 frame letterboxed in 4:3 but it's not 16:9.

Yes, that's correct, it is 14:9 letterboxed.

This was done so that analogue viewers see more of the frame than would have been the case if broadcasts had remained at 4:3.

However, the trade-off is the thin black bars at top and bottom.


A stupid trade off since it means that noone can get it full height anymore. Should just centercut 4:3 and let the dinosaur screens with excessive overscan just miss picture.




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  Reply # 312247 28-Mar-2010 23:08
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Is it 14:9 for every FTA broadcast or only certain FTA stations?

Do any FTA channels do a straight 4:3 "Crop"?

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  Reply # 312249 28-Mar-2010 23:19
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Juice is a 4:3 center cut. Not looked at analog for ages to know what the horse channel does.




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  Reply # 312250 28-Mar-2010 23:19
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Also have another question to help advise my friend - I use a FV HD box and my picture quality SEEMED to improve compared to analogue reception, even with SD broadcasts.

Is there some logical technical reason this might be the case even though both are SD broadcasts?

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  Reply # 312253 28-Mar-2010 23:22
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Because one is a nasty kludge to add colour to a bandwidth limited analog black and white video signal, and the other has the color done as seperate components all the way thru the system and doesnt have the same bandwidth limitation on the output if you are crazy enough to be using the composite output.

Plus the RF path for analog is normally quite noisy as well




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  Reply # 312272 29-Mar-2010 07:02
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ahmad: Is it 14:9 for every FTA broadcast or only certain FTA stations?

Do any FTA channels do a straight 4:3 "Crop"?


4:3 centre cut is ugly. You're simply just chopping off the left and right of the picture. This means broadcasters have to ensure they have 4:3 safe areas in all broadcasts and onscreen graphics to ensure these people are catered for. Going 4:3 letterbox is the best approach as it ensures the viewer gets to see the full picture however you then get complaints about the excessive black borders from people with 14" TV's which is the why the 14:9 approach is used as a compromise.

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  Reply # 312468 29-Mar-2010 16:43
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The thing is, everything is 4:3 safe on TV shows, and what better way is there to make people hurry up and move then if they are actually realizing they are getting a compromised image with a straight center cut.




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  Reply # 312528 29-Mar-2010 18:23
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ahmad: Also have another question to help advise my friend - I use a FV HD box and my picture quality SEEMED to improve compared to analogue reception, even with SD broadcasts.

Is there some logical technical reason this might be the case even though both are SD broadcasts?


Yes the picture will have improved. Basically you are taking advantage of the TV stations very expensive upscalers which simply do a much better job of up scaling then your TV will ever do.

Also unless someone else knows better with the current analogue setup the SD resolution includes the black bars top and bottom. With a digital source the available resolution is only being used in the area of the picture so the picture detail is better even for a SD source.







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  Reply # 312742 30-Mar-2010 09:40
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He seems to think based on reading "internet forums" that standard analogue FTA channels (1, 2, 3, C4, Prime), are received on his (analogue) widescreen TV in 16:9?

I suspect your friend might also be basing his opinion on seeing other friends wide screen TVs (with no Freeview) where the owners have "stretched" their analogue picture to fill the whole TV screen.



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  Reply # 312782 30-Mar-2010 11:36
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My friend already has a widescreen TV with analogue (of course).

He considered that his picture wasn't stretched, which I was pretty sure was wrong, which made me ask. His TV is set to "Auto" and doesn't have pillarboxes on standard viewing, so I was sure it was stretched. Now I'm convinced it is.

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  Reply # 312845 30-Mar-2010 14:31
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It may be doing the partial crop, and stretch the sides that was very popular in the early days of sidescreen before people became up to speed on the idea of aspect ratios which dvd bought about.

You should still see some pillarboxing on old and crap american shows that are 4:3 since there is some in the broadcast on analog, and it will be in the part that is stretched the most on the sides of the image.




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  Reply # 312884 30-Mar-2010 16:22
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ahmad: My friend already has a widescreen TV with analogue (of course).

He considered that his picture wasn't stretched, which I was pretty sure was wrong, which made me ask. His TV is set to "Auto" and doesn't have pillarboxes on standard viewing, so I was sure it was stretched. Now I'm convinced it is.


If he's tuning analogue channels it's definately stretched, AKA "fatovision" since it makes everybody look fat.




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