Combined UHF and Satellite Cable with 'F' type Splitter Amplifier problem

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geek4me

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#62105 29-May-2010 18:59

I have a Freeview UHF aerial and Freeview Satellite dish on my roof. The cable from each is combined into a single cable in the roof space that goes through the roof space and wall to my lounge where it is split again with a Hills SignalMaster splitter to both the UHF and satellite connectors of a Hyundai AH-3110 combined receiver.

This all works well except the Terrestrial UHF Freeview signal is marginal on some channels and drops below 50% in some atmospheric conditions losing the signal.

I added an 'F' type splitter amplifier in the lounge to the signal cable in the lounge before it is split into the UHF and satellite cables that connect to the receiver. The result was that the UHF signal strength went from 48% to 93% - a great improvement, however the Satellite signal was lost as no signal got through the amplifier to the splitter and receiver.

Putting the amplifier after the splitter in the lounge on the UHF cable connection to the receiver did not improve the signal so it has to be before the splitter to boost the UHF signal.

Apart from running two cables from the roof to my receiver which I can't do as there is no wall space for both, what can I do to amplify the UHF signal and not lose my Satellite signal in the same cable?

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#336154 29-May-2010 22:35

Try the amplifier in the roof space on the UHF cable before combining the cables?

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geek4me

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#336217 30-May-2010 10:26

I can't easily get power to the amplifier in the roof space. There is no power connection up there. I can see the logic of your idea - just hard to do.

I hadn't expected the amplifier to cut out the satellite signal but I guess it does.

Brunzy

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#336264 30-May-2010 13:11

If it is 'marginal' then :

Make sure you are using good quality RG6 throughout
and preferably F compression Conn
Replace the splitter with the proper combiner
If still not enough relocate your antenna
Do you know what the diagnostics on your TV say ?
ie BER level for each multiplex

Failing that you could use a remote powered amp in the ceiling

geek4me

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#336337 30-May-2010 18:37

The TV has no diagnostics as the Hyundai AH-3110 receiver does the processing which only shows a Strength and Quality percentage for each channel. No BER level is given. The picture drops out when the signal Strength is below 55%.

I wonder if there is an amp that lets the satellite signal through then I could use that instead. Does anyone know of one? I'm looking for the easiest solution.

Otherwise I may have to try my amplifier in the ceiling and power it somehow or put up with picture drop out.

richms

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#336427 31-May-2010 01:55

The inside part shouldnt be a splitter, it should be another diplexer like you have in the roof to combine them. That will have lower loss on both the UHF and sat ports as it isnt splitting, it is filtering out what you dont want.

There is no easy way to power a UHF amp up the same cable as it is carrying voltage for the LNB on the cable, which the diplexer in the roof will not pass to the UHF input of it.

Otherwise you could try an amplified multiswitch in the roof in place of the diplexer, but they are not cheap and it will mean you lose your UHF signal if the sat box is turned off as it powers it all from the LNB power that the sat boxes provide.

Richard rich.ms

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#336490 31-May-2010 10:06

Use the existing single cable as a draw wire to pull through two nice shiny new RG6 coax cables.
Then you don't have to muck around and you can use a masthead amp on the UHF input easily.
It will all then just work.

geek4me

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#336494 31-May-2010 10:10

richms: The inside part shouldnt be a splitter, it should be another diplexer like you have in the roof to combine them. That will have lower loss on both the UHF and sat ports as it isnt splitting, it is filtering out what you dont want.

My use of the word "splitter" was probably the wrong term. It's a Hills SignalMaster with the part number 19062 on it. It has an antenna in and a TV out as well as a Satellite out which also has a red power line drawn on it. So this is probably a diplexer.

I understand the problem now that the power from the satellite receiver is not getting through the amplifier to the LNB hence the loss of satellite signal.

geek4me

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#336498 31-May-2010 10:22

Jaxson: Use the existing single cable as a draw wire to pull through two nice shiny new RG6 coax cables.
Then you don't have to muck around and you can use a masthead amp on the UHF input easily.
It will all then just work.

Thanks Jaxson. The Freeview installer said their was no room for a third RG6 cable through the wall dwangs. The TelstraClear installer who put the first wire through (before the plasterboard was installed) only made the dwang holes big enough for their cable - typical. The Freeview installer could just get a second one through (after the house was built) but not a third.

geek4me

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#336508 31-May-2010 10:45

Another idea I have is to see whether the amplifier in the lounge can be doctored to pass the receiver power through so it gets to the LNBs (there are three) or buy one that already passes it through. Will talk to the supplier.

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#336511 31-May-2010 10:51

Really sounds like you need to inject the power to amplify the UHF leg in the roof, prior to it being diplexed. This will keep everthing separate. May require a power outlet to be installed in your ceiling space to power an amplifier power injector.

What about the UHF aerial, is this UHF only or is it VHF/UHF diplexed together? Can you get a higher gain aerial to boost the signal passively that way. Are the connections all good and rust free if not an F type connection at the aerial.

Alternatively drill some more holes yourself. Is this an internal wall? How far down the wall do you need to go to your receiver outlet? Do you have a wooden floored house etc?

Few ideas, sorry if it's all obvious.

geek4me

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#336513 31-May-2010 11:03

I'd need to get power installed in the roof space. The aerial is UHF only no VHF. Drilling is on an outside brick wall to almost floor level. Floor is concrete.

Good options have been offered - Thanks. Will consider these if the lounge amplifier can't be modified or replaced to pass the LNB power through.

k1wi

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#336522 31-May-2010 11:29

It shouldn't be too hard to get power to your roof space unless you have a rather unique house set up. After all, all your lighting is up there.

We put in a light & point in our roof space a while back. Granted it is in a timber house though. Given the amount of time I seem to spend up there (adding speaker runs, running network cables) it really comes in handy lol.

geek4me

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#336539 31-May-2010 12:11

The amplifier supplier suggested I try a Phased Array aerial MDU18 which should boost the UHF signal strength received so an amplifier won't be needed. It's a flat aerial that is more efficient than a standard UHF aerial. So I have a few options to consider.

Edit: The aerial installer says a new UHF transmitter was installed at Haywards 4 months ago so he's going to come round and point the aerial to that transmitter. I live in Trentham Upper Hutt and the aerial currently points to Kaukau. This could well solve the problem at little cost.

Brunzy

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#336551 31-May-2010 12:30

geek4me: The amplifier supplier suggested I try a Phased Array aerial MDU18 which should boost the UHF signal strength received so an amplifier won't be needed. It's a flat aerial that is more efficient than a standard UHF aerial. So I have a few options to consider.

Edit: The aerial installer says a new UHF transmitter was installed at Haywards 4 months ago so he's going to come round and point the aerial to that transmitter. I live in Trentham Upper Hutt and the aerial currently points to Kaukau. This could well solve the problem at little cost.

It's been there a couple of years

geek4me

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#336590 31-May-2010 13:17

Brunzy: It's been there a couple of years

Typical. I'll ask him about this when he comes round. Wonder what his explanation will be? He installed the system about 18 months ago.

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