World Cup on TV1 HD

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lchiu7

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#63422 26-Jun-2010 09:21

My TV is dead so I haven't been watching the WC but given how important the last game for the AW was I decided to record it anyway using gbpvr and DVB-T. Ironic I can record but can't watch :-(

Watching the recording later on a 1080P projector and 100" screen I noticed the following.

The PQ was pretty good - certainly very capable of being called HD and there were no artifacts that I could see from excessive compression and you would see those on this size screen.

Audio was AAC. Now this isn't surprisinging give that's TVNZ's standard but since AAC-HE is not that widely used around the world, I would have been surprised had the host broadcaster provided audio in this format - most likely DD 5.1 for their HD feed. That implies TVNZ did a real time encode of the signal which seems like a silly thing to do. If folks remember the Olympics, TVNZ send over a 5.1 feed since that is the audio feed coming from Beijing.

For the people with MySKY HDI did you guys get a 5.1 feed?

Just wondering...

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#345449 26-Jun-2010 09:28

Yes the Sky Sports feeds are DD5.1 which is what is delivered from SA for both Sky and TVNZ.

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lchiu7

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#345453 26-Jun-2010 09:51

Interesting. I wonder why they didn't do what TV3 does and send down the original DD 5.1 feed as well as an AAC feed.

And I did forget to comment how jarring the PQ change was when they went from the live game feed to the studio in SD. They couldn't splash out for one HD camera in the studio? Of course that's not all - I assume the entire production chain in the studio is SD only so a HD camera would not have helped much.

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JonnyCam

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#346001 28-Jun-2010 12:09

It's like the PQ change when they start to sing the natinal anthems fom SD to HD, then just after the game when they switch back to SD (didn't want to pay the extra few $ till the end of the coverage?)

tehconz

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#347565 3-Jul-2010 20:56

lchiu7:
Audio was AAC. Now this isn't surprisinging give that's TVNZ's standard but since AAC-HE is not that widely used around the world, I would have been surprised had the host broadcaster provided audio in this format - most likely DD 5.1 for their HD feed. That implies TVNZ did a real time encode of the signal which seems like a silly thing to do. If folks remember the Olympics, TVNZ send over a 5.1 feed since that is the audio feed coming from Beijing.

Yes, we had a 5.1 audio feed available, but switching to 5.1 requires a relatively complex config change to the head end encoder hardware, this was done for the olympics but it was decided against for the world cup. We will likely be making this change anyway before the end of the year as the new presentation environment supports 5.1.

As for the SD / HD switch, the studio is SD only. We'd love to have an HD studio, but hey, that costs money. It isn't possible to simply insert an HD camera as an entire chain of equipment is involved. Therefore there has to be a switch to the HD feed at some point from the studio feed. Effectively presentation hard cuts from the studio to the HD fibre, not pretty but it was the only way to have the game in HD and still have local studio fronting. Someone suggested parking one of OSB's HD trucks outside and doing it through there, but again, that would have cost money.

lchiu7

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#347570 3-Jul-2010 21:35

Thanks for the clarification. Note I did say in my post that

"And I did forget to comment how jarring the PQ change was when they went from the live game feed to the studio in SD. They couldn't splash out for one HD camera in the studio? Of course that's not all - I assume the entire production chain in the studio is SD only so a HD camera would not have helped much."

So I realised on HD camera would not have sufficed since it's the whole production chain as I noted and you reiterated. I hadn't considered the idea of an OB van but that would be silly I guess.

As for the AAC audio - interesting to know it was a technical decision not to do it but that later on the in year, that will be done. That sort of jives with a letter I received from the Minister of Broadcasting (no doubt authored by TVNZ folks) about TVNZ's upgrade plans to move to a digital production process.

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tehconz

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#347592 4-Jul-2010 00:16

Everything at TVNZ was upgraded to digital some time ago, but the upgrade to HD was a temporary solution that was only meant to be online for a few months before a completely new presentation system was built using Omneon servers rather than tape. This ended up getting delayed several times and the temporary solution has been in place ever since. The new system is finally almost finished, and will be entering testing in a few weeks. It will allow us to easily play HD shows back to back, broadcast 5.1 audio and play HD commercials. Rather than playing off HDCAM tape, programs and commercials will be ingested and played out from the servers.

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lchiu7

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#347608 4-Jul-2010 07:35

Yes I meant digital but that as you noted, the production chain was not entirely tapeless.

Good news that TVNZ is moving to a tapeless chain and will be sending out broadcast 5.1. Out of interest, will TVNZ always send out a Dolby Digital audio track (either 2.0 or 5.1) alongside the AAC one as TV3 does on TV1 and TV2 HD, or only send out DD when there is 5.1 content? I hope the former since the AAC-HE audio poses all kinds of problems with us HTPC uses and owners of media players and always having a DD track makes like much easier. Of course that doesn't apply alas to the other Freeview channels like TVNZ6 and TVNZ7 which I suspect are never going to be HD anytime soon and are likely to not have a DD track alongside the AAC one.

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wellygary

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#347611 4-Jul-2010 08:06

6+7 are unlikely to become HD mainly because there is not enough capacity in TVNZ's MUX for 4 HD streams,

tehconz

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#347669 4-Jul-2010 13:24

Yes, the DD 5.1 track will be in addition to the AAC on 1 & 2 and the dolby will be there all the time. In fact the dolby encoder is able to up mix 2.0 content to generate a pretty good sudo 5.1.

6 & 7 ironically will be generated internally in HD but there are no plans to broadcast in HD at this time, due to mux capacity as wellygary said. They will have the existing AAC 2.0 audio with no dolby stream.

shouston

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#347671 4-Jul-2010 13:40

TVNZ has always broadcast dolby digital. It is embedded in the left and right tracks of any stereo source. In fact any tv Channel that broadcast Stereo from a stereo source does this. Its not damaged in transmission, unless somewhere along the chain 1 track is removed or the material is dual monod
You need a decoder to hear it though " home theatre system" switch to music or movie mode. Try it out even the world cup will be in dolby Surround
Pacific was an excellent example. Fx and Music all around voice from the front.

tehconz

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#347676 4-Jul-2010 13:57

Dolby surround and Dolby digital are two very different things. Dolby surround has a single rear channel matrix encoded into the left and right audio itself. Dolby digital has six distinct and separately encoded channels in a single data stream.

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lchiu7

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#347681 4-Jul-2010 14:56

tehconz: Yes, the DD 5.1 track will be in addition to the AAC on 1 & 2 and the dolby will be there all the time. In fact the dolby encoder is able to up mix 2.0 content to generate a pretty good sudo 5.1.

6 & 7 ironically will be generated internally in HD but there are no plans to broadcast in HD at this time, due to mux capacity as wellygary said. They will have the existing AAC 2.0 audio with no dolby stream.

That's great news about TV1 and TV2. A bit disappointing for 6 and 7 but then (selfishly) I never watch those channels so wouldn't miss a DD track.

I do find mux capacity strange. It can't be a limitation of the spectrum (?) so is it what was assigned for Freeview and/or backhaul capacity for Kordia?

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shouston

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#347711 4-Jul-2010 16:59

tehconz: Dolby surround and Dolby digital are two very different things. Dolby surround has a single rear channel matrix encoded into the left and right audio itself. Dolby digital has six distinct and separately encoded channels in a single data stream.

Yes you are right there is a huge difference between 6 discrete channels, and "psuedo" surround.
As a soundy at TVNZ I look forward to the day our work can be heard the way we intend it to be heard. Its not that far away.

sbiddle

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#347715 4-Jul-2010 17:02

lchiu7:
tehconz: Yes, the DD 5.1 track will be in addition to the AAC on 1 & 2 and the dolby will be there all the time. In fact the dolby encoder is able to up mix 2.0 content to generate a pretty good sudo 5.1.

6 & 7 ironically will be generated internally in HD but there are no plans to broadcast in HD at this time, due to mux capacity as wellygary said. They will have the existing AAC 2.0 audio with no dolby stream.

That's great news about TV1 and TV2. A bit disappointing for 6 and 7 but then (selfishly) I never watch those channels so wouldn't miss a DD track.

I do find mux capacity strange. It can't be a limitation of the spectrum (?) so is it what was assigned for Freeview and/or backhaul capacity for Kordia?

6 and 7 could never be HD due to MUX limitations. There is no room on the TVNZ MUX. There is room on the Korda MUX for 1 additional HD channel, this has been unofficially reserved for Prime if they decide to move to HD.

Any additional HD channels would require additional spectrum.

richms

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#347739 4-Jul-2010 18:35

tehconz: Yes, the DD 5.1 track will be in addition to the AAC on 1 & 2 and the dolby will be there all the time. In fact the dolby encoder is able to up mix 2.0 content to generate a pretty good sudo 5.1.

6 & 7 ironically will be generated internally in HD but there are no plans to broadcast in HD at this time, due to mux capacity as wellygary said. They will have the existing AAC 2.0 audio with no dolby stream.

Oh no, I hope they dont turn on the fake surround option. I cant stand even dolby prologic processing on stereo stuff, hate to think what the encoder will do to make noise that shouldnt be there come from speakers that are not meant to be active.

Richard rich.ms

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