Geekzone: technology news, blogs, forums
Guest
Welcome Guest.
You haven't logged in yet. If you don't have an account you can register now.


17287 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 4940

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

Topic # 157536 4-Dec-2014 01:02
Send private message


In theory, if a mid level technical person worked for an IT Company and during the interview process and pretty much incessantly during their employment it was made VERY VERY clear that backups were the TOP priority in any situation, and you believe that said staff member clearly understood that, if a situation occurred where said
staff member was asked to deploy a backup solution but forgot which didn't result in a customer losing data (But did leave them less protected than would have otherwise been the case, how severe would justifiable employment discipline be fair to take? Would it be considered reasonable it was a sack able offence, or something less severe?

View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic
 1 | 2 | 3 | 4
4411 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 827

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  Reply # 1188396 4-Dec-2014 05:56
One person supports this post
Send private message

Nothing happen and this is the first error - I won't sweat over it.

Stern warning and constructive criticism are my choices. Mistakes, forgetfulness are part of human nature.






483 posts

Ultimate Geek
+1 received by user: 286

Trusted

  Reply # 1188400 4-Dec-2014 06:25
6 people support this post
Send private message

Was the work peer-reviewed?

Was the work signed off by a higher level manager?

Was the work formally accepted by the client?

1872 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1023


  Reply # 1188403 4-Dec-2014 06:47
2 people support this post
Send private message

This could be a written warning, depending on circumstances. The trick with discipline is you need to consistent with it across all employees, and it can't be based on emotional factors.

I think the real issue to tackle is task management. If the request was verbal and there is no process for ensuring things are done, things like this are bound to happen.




Location: Dunedin

145 posts

Master Geek
+1 received by user: 18


  Reply # 1188408 4-Dec-2014 07:30
Send private message

Within the 90 days probation?
Were the instructions clear and not implied

While you can gather a lot of information in an interview, you cant proceed on any formal disciplinary action unless instructions were clear, verbal or written and delivered to them while they were employed by you.

Is this their first client project for you?

3206 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 1727

Lifetime subscriber

  Reply # 1188412 4-Dec-2014 07:41
3 people support this post
Send private message

networkn:
In theory, if a mid level technical person worked for an IT Company and during the interview process and pretty much incessantly during their employment it was made VERY VERY clear that backups were the TOP priority in any situation, and you believe that said staff member clearly understood that, if a situation occurred where said
staff member was asked to deploy a backup solution but forgot which didn't result in a customer losing data (But did leave them less protected than would have otherwise been the case, how severe would justifiable employment discipline be fair to take? Would it be considered reasonable it was a sack able offence, or something less severe?


If they were asked verbally to do it, then I don't think anything beyond some constructive criticism is warranted, and a change in business process to ensure that in future there is a job/workorder that explicitly covers it.
If there was a written job/workorder,and it was ignored then a written warning is reasonable. I'm pretty sure if you tried to fire someone over something like that without a solid history of warnings you'd be $50,000 poorer after an ERA decision.








Information wants to be free. The Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it.

 

Thinking about signing up to BigPipe? Get $20 credit with my referral link.


12607 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 5917

Trusted

  Reply # 1188414 4-Dec-2014 07:50
Send private message

Depending on the affect on both companies, the written instructions Code of conduct and written minimum standards it could be deemed serious misconduct and a dismissal incident.

If those are not the case then it would be stage one of the discipline process, that is informal meeting and some time given to establishing in writing COC and minimum standards, these need to be signed by both parties.




Mike
Retired IT Manager. 
The views stated in my posts are my personal views and not that of any other organisation.

 

 It's our only home, lets clean it up then...

 

Take My Advice, Pull Down Your Pants And Slide On The Ice!

 

 


1741 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 587

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 1188415 4-Dec-2014 07:50
One person supports this post
Send private message

If something is so important that it could result in termination then you should probaby have a formal process around it. For example our company has a zero tolerance policy where staff fail to wear personal protective equipment.

There is a policy which describes the consequences and staff have to do a declaration on their phones prior to starting on a site for the day. It creates a framework for managing the performance, and consequences for those who breach.

If something is your number one priority do you have systems in place to manage it? Eg tick sheets etc. if you do and they are knowingly falsified you would have far more opportunity for discipline. Equally if you are within the 90 days and get a sense that this sort of thing may continue, you would probably consider termination any way, it's much harder after 90 days.

13993 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 2498

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 1188417 4-Dec-2014 07:54
4 people support this post
Send private message

Put it in writing, formally, that this is a required task. Set up whatever meetings and process are required. At this stage I think a verbal warning would potentially be appropriate, though written may be a little too far.




AWS Certified Solution Architect Professional, Sysop Administrator Associate, and Developer Associate
TOGAF certified enterprise architect
Professional photographer


2276 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 364

Trusted
Subscriber

  Reply # 1188430 4-Dec-2014 08:01
Send private message

I'm with the voices above in that a 'check sheet' of sorts needs to be used for all builds to ensure every aspect is covered off before it's handed over into BAU. While in this case you may believe the employee has made his employer look bad, the reality is that it's actually on the company he works for to ensure these checks and balances are on place to ensure this never happens in the first place.

Verbal warning would suffice



1472 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 335


  Reply # 1188583 4-Dec-2014 12:17
One person supports this post
Send private message

networkn:
staff member was asked .....


asked,.. how?. 
Over the ph ?, asked while they were busy on other tasks? . Asked via email ?
Its very easy for the asker to be vague and not realise it. Or to simply think they have asked but didnt.
As an employeee Ive had that , those asking where pretty damn vague.
Or didnt actually ask/request at all .

Everyone makes mistakes & everyone can forget.



17287 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 4940

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  Reply # 1188585 4-Dec-2014 12:22
Send private message

1101:
networkn:
staff member was asked .....


asked,.. how?. 
Over the ph ?, asked while they were busy on other tasks? . Asked via email ?
Its very easy for the asker to be vague and not realise it. Or to simply think they have asked but didnt.
As an employeee Ive had that , those asking where pretty damn vague.
Or didnt actually ask/request at all .

Everyone makes mistakes & everyone can forget.


Asked in person whilst they had no other distractions, and SOME things you can forget when you work in IT, backup is NOT one of those things. 



17287 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 4940

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  Reply # 1188587 4-Dec-2014 12:24
Send private message

Yogi02: Within the 90 days probation?
Were the instructions clear and not implied

While you can gather a lot of information in an interview, you cant proceed on any formal disciplinary action unless instructions were clear, verbal or written and delivered to them while they were employed by you.

Is this their first client project for you?


Sadly outside of the 90 days. They were VERY clear. Verbally presented. The staff member beside him clearly understood them and says "an idiot could understand" what was expected of them.



17287 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 4940

Trusted
Lifetime subscriber

  Reply # 1188588 4-Dec-2014 12:26
Send private message

nakedmolerat: Nothing happen and this is the first error - I won't sweat over it.

Stern warning and constructive criticism are my choices. Mistakes, forgetfulness are part of human nature.



So it's considered serious if the customer was to lose data (and then sue us), but fine if no actual loss occurred? Seems a tad unreasonable that the world should need to end in order for it to be considered a serious breach.

2926 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 716


  Reply # 1188618 4-Dec-2014 12:57
4 people support this post
Send private message

networkn:
nakedmolerat: Nothing happen and this is the first error - I won't sweat over it.

Stern warning and constructive criticism are my choices. Mistakes, forgetfulness are part of human nature.



So it's considered serious if the customer was to lose data (and then sue us), but fine if no actual loss occurred? Seems a tad unreasonable that the world should need to end in order for it to be considered a serious breach.


I'd say the general tenor of the posts above is that it was possible (and indeed appropriate) to have done more to ensure the employee was fully cognisant of the requirement, and that had best practice been followed (eg having it stated in writing, having a job sheet where it was to be ticked off...) the employer/manager would have far stronger grounds to take the employee to task, including the possibility of issuing a written warning for a failure to follow specified processes. In the absence of this, and especially given no actual consequential loss occured, the options logically need to be more "reasonable".

Surely if this is considered a "serious breach" it would be appropriate for the requirement to be confirmed in writing and for processes to be put in place to reduce the likeihood of it not occuring? If employees are to be held accountable for "serious breaches", there needs to be clear and unambiguous acknowledgement of such requirements. Ensuring everything like this is in writing also offers advantages to the employer in such situations, as it won't need to descend to to a "he said, she said" situation of trying to rehash previous conversations.

2171 posts

Uber Geek
+1 received by user: 657

Subscriber

  Reply # 1188619 4-Dec-2014 13:02
Send private message

networkn: Verbally presented.


Good luck.

Next time follow up with an email of your expectations. If they are as useless as you say it won't take long for them to drop the ball again and you will have a paper trail. At most I would say you could give a verbal warning, but even then it may be worth talking to an employment lawyer first. 



 1 | 2 | 3 | 4
View this topic in a long page with up to 500 replies per page Create new topic

Twitter »

Follow us to receive Twitter updates when new discussions are posted in our forums:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when news items and blogs are posted in our frontpage:



Follow us to receive Twitter updates when tech item prices are listed in our price comparison site:





News »

Hawaiki Transpacific cable ready-for-service
Posted 20-Jul-2018 11:29


Microsoft Dynamics 365 Business Central launches
Posted 10-Jul-2018 10:40


Spark completes first milestone in voice platform upgrade
Posted 10-Jul-2018 09:36


Microsoft ices heated developers
Posted 6-Jul-2018 20:16


PB Technologies charged for its extended warranties and warned for bait advertising
Posted 3-Jul-2018 15:45


Almost 20,000 people claim credits from Spark
Posted 29-Jun-2018 10:40


Cove sells NZ's first insurance policy via chatbot
Posted 25-Jun-2018 10:04


N4L helping TAKA Trust bridge the digital divide for Lower Hutt students
Posted 18-Jun-2018 13:08


Winners Announced for 2018 CIO Awards
Posted 18-Jun-2018 13:03


Logitech Rally sets new standard for USB-connected video conference cameras
Posted 18-Jun-2018 09:27


Russell Stanners steps down as Vodafone NZ CEO
Posted 12-Jun-2018 09:13


Intergen recognised as 2018 Microsoft Country Partner of the Year for New Zealand
Posted 12-Jun-2018 08:00


Finalists Announced For Microsoft NZ Partner Awards
Posted 6-Jun-2018 15:12


Vocus Group and Vodafone announce joint venture to accelerate fibre innovation
Posted 5-Jun-2018 10:52


Kogan.com to launch Kogan Mobile in New Zealand
Posted 4-Jun-2018 14:34



Geekzone Live »

Try automatic live updates from Geekzone directly in your browser, without refreshing the page, with Geekzone Live now.



Are you subscribed to our RSS feed? You can download the latest headlines and summaries from our stories directly to your computer or smartphone by using a feed reader.

Alternatively, you can receive a daily email with Geekzone updates.