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AlternativeUsername

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#236193 22-May-2018 21:41
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Hi Guys,

 

I'm not too secretive with my usernames, so I figured best to use an alternative username to post this question, just in case.

 

I'm a frequent user of Geekzone, so I figured you all might be a good source of expectations for On Call rates and things in the IT sector.

 

So, my employer has incredibly high expectations for response times - as in responses to anything coming in or going out should basically equal the same as if we were operating during business hours. An email request? Resolve it if possible, otherwise organize for ASAP resolution. A message on our voicemail system? Respond to it promptly and resolve the issue if possible.

 

We're a small company, the role encompasses everything an IT professional might expect to encounter - SLAs, network monitoring (including infrastructure core to our business), minimum expected response times, and a few other things, which basically boils down to on a busy day, you might as well have not left the office at all, or if it's a weekend you may as well have gone in.

 

The on-call rate for this is roughly a $30 allowance, and travel/time and a half with a minimum hour pay out if we need to actually head out to a site to resolve an issue.

 

What keeps coming up though is that the contract specifies a range of hours of expected availability, summing up approximately 58 hours of not at work expected responding hours, and beyond that verbally have been advised that the actual hours (which are 44 hours, not matching the contracted hours) only relate to responding to customer inquiries, etc. and that the time outside of that there is a still an expectation of rapid response (we're talking sub-5 minutes for core infrastructure).

 

I feel that $30 isn't enough to cover this level of service on a daily basis, and due to the size of the business, the on call periods simply come up too frequently for such low pay and high response levels expected. All of this is weighed against a 40 hour week, so realistically the employers expectations are an entire week of real time response outside of specified hours (roughly 144 hours a week of monitoring outside business hours and an 8 hour daily rest window to sleep), 44 hours of potential helldesk, and compensates only $30 a day, or $210 a week, for this.

 

 

 

Obviously I'm willing to compromise on the expectations and remuneration with the mind that this is a small business, however surely given the expectation and workload, it's essentially 44 hours of incredibly cheap (roughly $4.78 an hour) helpdesk, with a bucketload more piled on top. Apologies for being vague about everything, but I already feel I've given too much detail away.

 

 

 

What I'm looking for is guidance as to if this is what would be defined by the average user as "fair", or if this is the shortest end of the stick?


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marpada
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  #2020768 22-May-2018 22:06
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Being on-call usually involves managing unexpected urgent matters that cannot wait until the next day. Normal practice is that your employer pays an on-call allowance about an order of magnitude bigger that what you're receiving, and a callout fee for every incident which should be about 1-1.5 h of your hourly rate. Are you a migrant on a worker visa by chance?


 
 
 

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dfnt
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  #2020783 22-May-2018 22:20
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$30 is ridiculous. I would refuse, or quit.

 

 

 

The last time I did on call which was over 4 years ago, the on call allowance was 10% of our base salary/pa, plus minimum 1h o/t for any call even if no resolution was required.

 

Another was $250 allowance, min 1hr o/t etc


davidcole
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  #2020785 22-May-2018 22:24
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Is that $30 a week or a day?

It doss sound pretty light. And does it change for weekend when you’re not at work for longer and expected to to be near your tools.




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insane
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  #2020792 22-May-2018 22:35
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When I worked on-call as a systems engineer 4 years ago it worked as follows:

 

Each person in the team of 7 was part of a roster where we were on-call for 1 week at a time. 

 

We received a daily on-call allowance of 1.5x our standard hourly rate. The first hour of a callout was not chargeable, however, after that we got 1.5x our standard hourly rate (from the 2nd hour onwards)

 

We were expected to carry a pager and physically be able to make it to the office / datacenter within 45 minutes at all times, however, most issues could be fixed remotely and we seldom had much to do.

 

As you can imagine it wasn't hard to get another team member to take your week on-call if you couldn't, in fact we often had multiples offers!

 

 

 

 


AlternativeUsername

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  #2020798 22-May-2018 22:43
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Sadly not a tale of exploited migrants, just a lot of hard and fast playing by the outlined rules, and previous employees who've been either unwilling to push back, or who have pushed back in a private context and had changes made to an individual agreement.

 

Regardless, so far the feedback and vibe I'm getting is that this isn't looking good, especially given the whole "are you a migrant worker" thing.

 

Also, just for the sake of clarity, it's $30 per day while on call, which is usually a full week, including being essentially the skeleton crew for the weekend incoming, none of which is paid out beyond the $30.

 

Given the information you guys have, and assuming you were on the living wage of $822 a week ($20.55 an hour) pre tax, what sort of pay arrangements would you seek to make this a fair offer?

 

edit: I guess another bit of context that might be worth throwing in is that the current staff levels leave no space for "trading", it's simply a "hot potato" situation, regarding anything beyond the usual pattern.


michaelmurfy
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  #2020801 22-May-2018 22:45
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I get $30 a day and paid out at a minimum of 2 hours (at double-time) for each incident... Even if that incident takes 5mins to resolve.

 

At a previous job it was $50 a day but no overtime - it was terrible and reminds me of your situation. There will be times where I would not get any sleep in a night and still be expected to come into work the next day also (and not get paid for any of my work during the night) - we did get a $5/hr "bonus" but that was hardly worth it for us techs as the company itself was charging $180/hr to the client. This was more an insult, I bought it up multiple times (and got shot down by management). Leaving that company was the best thing I ever did.

 

At-least with my current job if I get kept up all night with an incident I can "work from home" or turn up late the next day.





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AlternativeUsername

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  #2020802 22-May-2018 22:47
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michaelmurfy:

 

I get $30 a day and paid out at a minimum of 2 hours (at double-time) for each incident.

 

At a previous job it was $50 a day but no overtime - it was terrible and reminds me of your situation. There will be times where I would not get any sleep in a night and still be expected to come into work the next day also (and not get paid for any of my work during the night) - we did get a $5/hr "bonus" but that was hardly worth it for us techs as the company itself was charging $180/hr to the client. This was more an insult, I bought it up multiple times (and got shot down by management). Leaving that company was the best thing I ever did.

 

At-least with my current job if I get kept up all night with an incident I can "work from home" or turn up late the next day.

 

 

I don't think the latter stuff is an issue in this case - there's reasonable flexibility in that regard, however the only time payment beyond the $30 is made is for a vehicle roll for either something we could charge to a customer, or something of ours going tits up that requires on site intervention. And as mentioned earlier, this includes helldesk duties in the standard customer availability window, which actually means full responses and handling of public customers and potential customers, not just businesses, all rolled into the $30 fee.




michaelmurfy
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  #2020804 22-May-2018 22:51
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@AlternativeUsername How much is the business charging to the client or is it a maintenance contract?





Michael Murphy | https://murfy.nz
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insane
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  #2020805 22-May-2018 22:52
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When I first started on-call it worked differently to what I said above. Initially, we got paid half of whatever was charged to a customer, so worked out to be $75/h or $150/ hour depending on the time of day - minimum of 1 hour charge. While I earned more that way due to a few really big callouts, it was far worse as some weeks you'd get no calls and therefore no compensation at all, and no one would offer to take your place (December holidays Christmas/new years etc sucked for jnr staff [me])

 

Was never expected to show up on time if we didn't get much sleep or made 4am scheduled changes, was all very very reasonable! 


AlternativeUsername

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  #2020809 22-May-2018 23:00
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A combination of maintaining a service level for the company, operating help desk/sales/whatever as sole point of contact outside standard business hours (mirroring an expectation in standard business hours) where volumes can be as high as requiring sitting at a desk in an office for a few hours (this has happened before, where I essentially just sat at my desk at home with a laptop and worked for a few hours to keep up across the day), or completely silent (no contacts beyond the occasional I'm OK message from automated systems) for both email and telephone.

 

All of this is rolled into the $30 allocation, with additional payment at an amount well in excess of hourly rate IF (and it's a large IF) a site visit is actually required. If a client does get charged, hourly rate is usually around the $200 mark, and the worker sees about half of that. The big issue I can see is that the vast majority of the role is non-revenue generating, but still potentially time consuming, and isn't being reasonably paid for. The rare revenue generating events do pay out, or if a major systems issue with our equipment needs an individual to visit and resolve, that pays out, but otherwise there's no additional payment made outside the $30.


michaelmurfy
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  #2020812 22-May-2018 23:09
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If there is no additional payment made past the $30 I would seriously consider finding another job. They should at-least pay you for your time as a "callout" which many (not all) IT companies do. They need to factor in staff costs for callouts for any maintenance contract in my own personal opinion.

 

I've seen companies do this (and also experienced it myself) and honestly think it is an insult to the person doing all the work (the tech). This was quite a number of years ago for me when it happened but companies are indeed allowed to do this if the worker is on salary and not on a hourly wage from what I've read.

 

This is where I am not 100% sure - I am not at all an employment lawyer or anything.





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esawers
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  #2020815 22-May-2018 23:16
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My work is similar, $30/day and depending on the contract either a minimum 2-3 hours pay or overtime rate if called out. Response time is within 1 hour but remote login is fine.
We also have a paid stand down (also depending on the contract) of 9-12 hours before we have to come back into work the next day.

nickb800
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  #2020870 23-May-2018 07:29
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AlternativeUsername:

 

Sadly not a tale of exploited migrants, just a lot of hard and fast playing by the outlined rules, and previous employees who've been either unwilling to push back, or who have pushed back in a private context and had changes made to an individual agreement.

 

Regardless, so far the feedback and vibe I'm getting is that this isn't looking good, especially given the whole "are you a migrant worker" thing.

 

Also, just for the sake of clarity, it's $30 per day while on call, which is usually a full week, including being essentially the skeleton crew for the weekend incoming, none of which is paid out beyond the $30.

 

Given the information you guys have, and assuming you were on the living wage of $822 a week ($20.55 an hour) pre tax, what sort of pay arrangements would you seek to make this a fair offer?

 

edit: I guess another bit of context that might be worth throwing in is that the current staff levels leave no space for "trading", it's simply a "hot potato" situation, regarding anything beyond the usual pattern.

 

 

 

 

If we assume living wage, then you'd be getting pretty close to/under minimum wage some weeks then?


Dairyxox
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  #2020912 23-May-2018 08:04
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nickb800:

 

If we assume living wage, then you'd be getting pretty close to/under minimum wage some weeks then?

 

 

 

 

This is my thinking too. It would be good if you gave us some example numbers.

 

 

 

But you threw out the number 144 hours a week, and getting paid $822. This works out at $5.71 an hour.

 

Even if you double it, its still way below minimum wage and would be illegal of your employer.

 

 

 

Regardless of what happens it sounds like you should be looking for another job.


gehenna
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  #2020917 23-May-2018 08:20
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I don't think $30 a day ($210 a week) is an unreasonable on-call allowance.  Of course that should only be the baseline.  Any calls requiring you to do something should be an extra payment on top of the baseline.  


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