Three Strike internet law update???

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#1096172 26-Jul-2014 15:10

Yabanize:
NonprayingMantis:
mattwnz:
Tzoi: iirc the film industry is refusing to pay the $25 fine required to get the ISPs to process a claim which is why it has been solely music downloads targeted.

Maybe they haven't found anyone downloading films and it isn't a big enough problem. I mean 25 dollars is a pretty small fee, and apparently doesn't even cover ISPs admin costs in managing it. So if was a problem, I would have thought they would have made an example of some people

Lol. It's not $25 to make an example of someone. It's $25 for one notice. And then they need to send hundreds of notices to catch one person 3 times because most people don't have static ips so they have no way of tracking individual people.

So it will cost them several thousand just to get one result.

But the ISP will have logs of who had which IP when?

Right, but they don't/won't/can't tell the rights holders this information. They won't be sending emails to Sony going "hey, that guy that was downloading your movie last month has switched ips now. You can find him at xxx.xxx.xx.xx"

mattwnz

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#1096180 26-Jul-2014 15:18

NonprayingMantis:
mattwnz:
Tzoi: iirc the film industry is refusing to pay the $25 fine required to get the ISPs to process a claim which is why it has been solely music downloads targeted.

Maybe they haven't found anyone downloading films and it isn't a big enough problem. I mean 25 dollars is a pretty small fee, and apparently doesn't even cover ISPs admin costs in managing it. So if was a problem, I would have thought they would have made an example of some people

Lol. It's not $25 to make an example of someone. It's $25 for one notice. And then they need to send hundreds of notices to catch one person 3 times because most people don't have static ips so they have no way of tracking individual people.

So it will cost them several thousand just to get one result.

Yes $25 for one notice, so what is the most they will have to spend to take someone to the tribunal, $50 or $75? That is a lot cheaper for them than hiring expensive lawyers which maybe making $300 per hour. Compared to the return on that, where the user can get fined quite a large amount, that is not much. I guess if they don't use the law, I wonder if it will remain. Isn't this what they were wanting? I mean someone has to pay for it, and I would expect that the costs would come out of their normal costs of running their business.
Last time I went to the movies it was $25 just for the ticket , so it is just the cost of a single person going to the movies.

scuwp

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#1096211 26-Jul-2014 16:10

I don't recall the source, but I understood the movie studios did not consider NZ a big enough market to worry about, they had much bigger fish to fry.

Lazy is such an ugly word, I prefer to call it selective participation

richms

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#1096213 26-Jul-2014 16:11

They also have to pay the people submitting the alleged infringement notices and the people who operate the systems tracking the torrent swarms. To think that it is only $75 to take someone thru the process is a bit simple.

Richard rich.ms

NonprayingMantis

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#1096225 26-Jul-2014 16:22

mattwnz:
NonprayingMantis:
mattwnz:
Tzoi: iirc the film industry is refusing to pay the $25 fine required to get the ISPs to process a claim which is why it has been solely music downloads targeted.

Maybe they haven't found anyone downloading films and it isn't a big enough problem. I mean 25 dollars is a pretty small fee, and apparently doesn't even cover ISPs admin costs in managing it. So if was a problem, I would have thought they would have made an example of some people

Lol. It's not $25 to make an example of someone. It's $25 for one notice. And then they need to send hundreds of notices to catch one person 3 times because most people don't have static ips so they have no way of tracking individual people.

So it will cost them several thousand just to get one result.

Yes $25 for one notice, so what is the most they will have to spend to take someone to the tribunal, $50 or $75? That is a lot cheaper for them than hiring expensive lawyers which maybe making $300 per hour. Compared to the return on that, where the user can get fined quite a large amount, that is not much. I guess if they don't use the law, I wonder if it will remain. Isn't this what they were wanting? I mean someone has to pay for it, and I would expect that the costs would come out of their normal costs of running their business.
Last time I went to the movies it was $25 just for the ticket , so it is just the cost of a single person going to the movies.

no, thats not right.
They can't track individuals across IP addresses, which means they have to send out hundreds, maybe thousands of notices before they get lucky and pick the same person a second time. (and same again for third time)

loceff13

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#1096235 26-Jul-2014 16:37

(iirc)It's roughly 3x$25+GST for the 3 strikes followed by a $200 application fee for the tribunal cost, then they also have the added costs of paying a company to detect on their behalf and potentially staff to decide who they choose to go after(ie they might be more likely to target people sharing multiples files at once or known IP addresses they have already taken action(notices) against).

The highest judgement by the tribunal so far was a $914.35 fine
http://www.nzlii.org/nz/cases/NZCopyT/2013/8.html

In this case they sent 6 notices for different infringements being unaware it was the same customer(3 were during one 28 day on-notice period where you can't get another strike) and the user was fined 6x$100+various other costs.

Generally the judgements have been around $300-500, there are ~2 other large ones including one where a person was sharing some 97 tracks so they got 3x$180 in damages+costs.

You can view them here: http://www.nzlii.org/nz/cases/NZCopyT/2013/

As far as I'm aware there has been no tribunal judgements this year.

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#1096863 28-Jul-2014 08:33

I'm a geek, a gamer, a dad, a Quic user, and an IT Professional. I have a full rack home lab, size 15 feet, an epic beard and Asperger's. I'm a bit of a Cypherpunk, who believes information wants to be free and the Net interprets censorship as damage and routes around it. If you use my Quic signup you can also use the code R570394EKGIZ8 for free setup. Opinions are my own and not the views of my employer.

jtbthatsme

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#1096864 28-Jul-2014 08:35

Funniest part about the above pretty sure there's a kiwi guy who's doing just that printing off a car.

gnfb

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#1096871 28-Jul-2014 08:52

Ok let me get this straight There are people out there who BUY a CD?.... Still! and WHY? We must be over the tactile purchasing need by now?

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xpd

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#1096876 28-Jul-2014 09:00

gnfb: Ok let me get this straight There are people out there who BUY a CD?.... Still! and WHY? We must be over the tactile purchasing need by now?

Nope, some ppl still prefer to have something to put on the shelves..... or else the lounge/entertainment area starts looking rather boring with just an iPod in a dock. ;)

XPD / Gavin

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#1096906 28-Jul-2014 09:45

scuwp: I don't recall the source, but I understood the movie studios did not consider NZ a big enough market to worry about, they had much bigger fish to fry.

Most of the reports I have seen over the years of people being done by the movie studios is of the original ripper/up-loader of the material and not so much the people downloading. I guess they get more money from prosecuting the source then from a 16 year old kid in NZ who downloaded it.

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CutCutCut

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#1096913 28-Jul-2014 09:59

gnfb: Ok let me get this straight There are people out there who BUY a CD?.... Still! and WHY? We must be over the tactile purchasing need by now?

If you don't mind ripping it yourself to mp3 or whatever, CDs are sometimes still cheaper.

NzBeagle

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#1096963 28-Jul-2014 10:23

Is it to do with scale? Thousands, or tens of thousands, of songs being downloaded, where as people are talking perhaps hundreds of movies? TV shows perhaps would be more worthwhile as the next target? With a range of music streaming options, free for some telecom subscribers, maybe this is why we hear less of the infringements for music downloads?

With Netflix becoming more prevalent now in NZ perhaps movies/tv won't become a big target?

gnfb

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#1096985 28-Jul-2014 10:47

xpd:
gnfb: Ok let me get this straight There are people out there who BUY a CD?.... Still! and WHY? We must be over the tactile purchasing need by now?

Nope, some ppl still prefer to have something to put on the shelves..... or else the lounge/entertainment area starts looking rather boring with just an iPod in a dock. ;)

On a more serious note, That after sales feeling is still very important When you see a shelf full of plastic you feel good! That you got something for your money When you down load a book or album and it is directly transferred to your "device" Other than the entry in a list, and a debit in your credit card account, there is no "touchy freely" satisfaction. There can be a feeling of being ripped off. Companies like Apple and Tiffany's learnt this years ago. Ask any woman with a pulse what colour a Tiffany's box is? How many people keep the box there apple product came in? ok BTW....

Is an English Man living in New Zealand. Not a writer, an Observer he says. Graham is a seasoned 'traveler" with his sometimes arrogant, but honest opinion on life. He loves the Internet!.

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richms

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#1097031 28-Jul-2014 12:43

Really? I see a shelf full of plastic and think how inconvienent.

Richard rich.ms

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