Government Passing Internet 3-Strikes Law Today

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Ultimate Geek
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#478638 7-Jun-2011 17:53

Meanwhile, some organisations in the recording industry are now saying that disconnection is no longer a policy they like to have.

http://www.smh.com.au/technology/technology-news/music-and-film-industries-split-over-pirates-20110606-1fo8q.html

gzt

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#478648 7-Jun-2011 18:27

tdgeek: If your IP is seen sharing copyright files, you are at risk.

Yes. That part is correct. This is a big part of the problem.

There are numerous ways an ip address can be 'seen' as peering copyright files when it actually isn't involved any peering whatsoever.

tdgeek

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#478656 7-Jun-2011 18:42

----gzt There are numerous ways an ip address can be 'seen' as peering copyright files when it actually isn't involved any peering whatsoever.----

So, I'm not filesharing, my IP won't be seen.

If I am filesharing, I am online, downloading and/or uploading non copyright files, my IP wont be targeted.

If I am filesharing, I am online, downloading and/or uploading copyright files, my IP can be targeted.

gnfb

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#478690 7-Jun-2011 19:57

I will persevere .....

I want to be able to use the internet without fear of prosecution how can i do that without becoming a expert in copyright law?

the only way i can see effectively to do that is to
a. not use the internet and have it completely disconnected and have no account in my name
or
b. make it so no one can tell what i am doing on the internet

With the law the way it is taken to its full conclusion these are my only two options

By the way all you goodie two shoes who are standing up for this law just remember every time you hum a tune in public every time you record at home on a video every time you play your radio so that more than you can hear it you are breaking the law if you dont pay the copyright holders a fee of the hummed or played etc song

Is an English Man living in New Zealand. Not a writer, an Observer he says. Graham is a seasoned 'traveler" with his sometimes arrogant, but honest opinion on life. He loves the Internet!.

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tdgeek

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#478706 7-Jun-2011 20:26

gnfb1234
Ok, I see, you are just joking around with us, thats fine. Or the only thing you do online is download illegal content.

Option (a) is a highly effective solution.

Option 9(b), maybe, maybe not. But you will already know that I assume.

And we are not goody two shoes, we "were" merely looking at your very good questions and offering what I read to be as answering those questions.

Nuff said.

gnfb

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#478731 7-Jun-2011 21:04

Yes I think this conversation has run its course and we will like good humans agree to disagree

So I ask the question I started with

Does anyone know how I can effectively cloak hide etc my ip address?

Is an English Man living in New Zealand. Not a writer, an Observer he says. Graham is a seasoned 'traveler" with his sometimes arrogant, but honest opinion on life. He loves the Internet!.

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Ragnor

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#478781 7-Jun-2011 22:36

Use a prezzie card (paid for with cash) to rent a vpn/seedbox/vps/whatever overseas and tunnel downloads over it.

Wish they (content providers) would hurry up and offer good, cheap, convenient local services for content so this crap wasn't needed.

A Steam like service for TV series and older movie releases would go down well with me.

Shadowfoot

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Ultimate Geek
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#478797 7-Jun-2011 23:24

Ragnor: Use a prezzie card (paid for with cash) to rent a vpn/seedbox/vps/whatever overseas and tunnel downloads over it.

Wish they (content providers) would hurry up and offer good, cheap, convenient local services for content so this crap wasn't needed.

A Steam like service for TV series and older movie releases would go down well with me.

That's only a solution if you want to pirate and get away with it. It's not a solution to the premise of safely and legally using the internet without fear of wrongful accusation.

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Talkiet

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#478807 7-Jun-2011 23:43

Although not a dead cert... there is a way that would likely mean you could get out of any accusation...

Get a broadband connection and use a router with the ability to port mirror and configure so that all traffic entering or exiting the Internet is dumped to a series of hard disks that you keep for at least as long as the infringement notices are 'live' (Several months).

In addition to this, maintain your own usage history with MRTG or similar.

NOW, when accused (falsely of course), use the process to contest the accusation, and offer in support a copy of your internet history for the time period in question, as well as MRTG graphs for the period, and a copy of the ISPs usage records for that time as well.

While you COULD fake these, I am reasonably confident that if you had these deposited in advance with lawyers on a rotating 3 month schedule, you'd likely fall into the too hard basket and the rights holder would withdraw the notice.

Now of course, you might maintain that this is a stupid length to go to in order to protect yourself against false accusation and you know what? I agree 100% with that... However, if you're not going to be downloading copyrighted material, then getting an overseas VPN etc is also a stupid length to go to.

As has also been intimated... Getting a VPN doesn't preclude someone making a mistake and using your IP address in an infringement notice...

Cheers - N

Please note all comments are from my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.

tdgeek

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#478853 8-Jun-2011 09:24

I do not believe there are going to be the false accusations issues that many dwell on.

NZ has a conservative British based legal system, and while these charges won't go through that directly, the same traditional mindset will apply. Compare that to the US which is rife with lawsuits, 60% win fee, $0 fee for losing a case lawyers.

In addition, we have a vigorous lobby base, as occured whrn S92a came into the news 2 years ago. In further addition the big businesses don't have the same pulling power they do over there.

So, if you are not getting illegal software, your IP will not be accused, as it is simply not in existence where the rightsholders are scanning. It is possible that an IP address that is accused, may mean that an ISP may have incorrect records as to who owned that IP at that genuine date and time, so that is a concern.

Talkiet, can MRTG keep a log of external IP addresses?

Talkiet

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#478857 8-Jun-2011 09:31

tdgeek: [snip]

Talkiet, can MRTG keep a log of external IP addresses?

No, the MRTG is only to show traffic usage levels... The complete packet captures out the mirror port will record EVERYTHING, every packet, in and out, with all headers and payload intact. :-)

It's overkill...

Cheers- N

Please note all comments are from my own brain and don't necessarily represent the position or opinions of my employer, previous employers, colleagues, friends or pets.

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tdgeek

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#478860 8-Jun-2011 09:38

ok, perhaps then it will be wise to ensure that the modem contains the users username, so that if there is an issue of a possible ISP error, that the IP address at the date and time can be matched against the modems username, i.e the account owner.

gzt

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#479143 8-Jun-2011 23:49

NZ Herald: "ISPs 'will struggle with new web laws'":

""We're less than 12 weeks out from the go-live date on September 1 and ISPs are saying they need between 9 and 12 months to implement a system. You can see that it will be difficult for them.""

"Based on the experience of copyright authorities overseas, Shera said New Zealand internet companies could receive up to 3000 notices a day from rights holders, which they will have to pass on to customers within a week."

Just like TDGeek, I am confident the NZ legal system can sort this mess out and iron out the defects.

But unlike TDGeek - I think the cost in court time & litigation to sort out the mess should not be loaded onto the internet users of NZ.

If they have any brains, rightsholder companies preparing to use this process will target only the worst infringers to begin with, and act only where they have evidence from multiple corroborating sources, and act only where technical sources of doubt are non-existent.

Rightsholder companies would be especially dumb if they started issuing bulk uncorroborated notices before the election.

Under NZ's legal system there may be legal scope to have rightsholders who continually issue bulk unsupportable infringement notices declared vexatious litigants and dismissed from the court, but probably the represented party could easily be changed to avoid any effect of this declaration.

Any political party with a brain should be stating they support suspending this bill and going back to select committee for a full hearing of the issues.

tdgeek

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#479152 9-Jun-2011 00:35

Hi gzt

I agree. Although there won't be court time as such, the charge will be handled by the Copyright Tribunal/Commission. But there is supposed to be evidence provided, and that does need to be clear. If Guilty upon being accused as are parking tickets and speed camera notices, the evidence needs to be clear. I doubt there will be vexatious claims, but one that is in error will put a huge lobby base into action. Ideally they will target highly active P2P'ers, those first cases will attract big attention, so vocal are the internet population here. Sound cases of the first few cases and the publicity it will attract will go a long way to stemming illegal filesharing here.

There is still an issue I think wth the costs that the ISP's are to be paid per notice, although if the evidence was as you say, in no doubt, then the cost to the ISP is not relevant as technically, they will get the opportunity to fine on each case, which really has to be the case if the accused are deemed as guilty. This is why parking andspeed cameras are guilty, as the evidence is there at the time of the accusation.

Lastly, they may decide to make examples, sensible examples. For example, if they see the account holder in the hearing is elderly with grandkids, well go ahead, have the Tribunal confirm that they are fine-able, and let them off with a warning. Good publicity and sensible sentencing.

gnfb

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#479337 9-Jun-2011 14:07

I wasnt going to say anymore as I wasnt getting anywhere
But just looking through the answres comments again
The huge time cost hassle unknown that will be upon us and the amount of effort youal are putting into whats right whats wrong etc Wouldnt it just be easier to come up with a software solution to block there watching so after a while they pack up there tent and go home?

Is an English Man living in New Zealand. Not a writer, an Observer he says. Graham is a seasoned 'traveler" with his sometimes arrogant, but honest opinion on life. He loves the Internet!.

I have two shops online allshop.nz patchpinflag.nz
Email Me

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