NSA PRISM discussion

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#847591 1-Jul-2013 09:00

If I could add my 2 cents to the conversation then..
I am not exactly surprised that US is doing all the surveillance.
Let's face it, if China can successfully run the great firewall US can do similar.

I don't like it either.
And I am getting a sense that the only way to ensure governments are slightly hindered at collecting all the information, is to make the information irrelevant.

So I am going to propose something like a collective civil disobedience.
How about posting something like: "I am blowing up the White House on the 4th of July" using all possible ways (fb, twitter, skype, viber etc).

Anyone?

D

freitasm

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#847593 1-Jul-2013 09:06

You don't want to be the only one posting THAT status. I did see the Troll the NSA website a couple of weeks back with a letter sample containing a long list of keywords believed to trigger surveillance, but in a innocuous stream describing a day of someone doing normal things.

So all the right keywords, none of the incriminating status you propose...

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#848026 2-Jul-2013 07:12

dauckland: If I could add my 2 cents to the conversation then..
I am not exactly surprised that US is doing all the surveillance.
Let's face it, if China can successfully run the great firewall US can do similar.

I don't like it either.
And I am getting a sense that the only way to ensure governments are slightly hindered at collecting all the information, is to make the information irrelevant.

So I am going to propose something like a collective civil disobedience.
How about posting something like: "I am blowing up the White House on the 4th of July" using all possible ways (fb, twitter, skype, viber etc).

Anyone?

D

You might find this website: http://nsa.motherboard.tv/ useful.
It creates random phrases with keywords that NSA look out for. :)

EDIT: Had to edit again Since I can not link URLs yet.

dauckland

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#848546 3-Jul-2013 09:12

Very interesting.
Not sure I am prepared to go to those lengths but nice to see someone else is thinking the same.

There is one thing that is very upsetting in governments introducing such broad snooping powers.
They, and by they I mean US and NZ with the new GCSB changes, are saying it is vital to protect our (as in people's) security. So looks like we need to be protected from ourselves.

Also, John Key said something recently which is very telling of governments' attitude to pushing these measures.
He said he doesn't want to have a NZ equivalent of Boston marathon on his hands.

Well, two things.
Despite all the internet surveillance there were no steps taken to stop Boston bombing. So to me it was useless.

Second, it's very easy to get people to submit their civil liberties because of fear. I have not seen any evidence, at least within NZ context, that internet snooping stopped a bad guy.
The only guy it stopped was Kim, and that was illegal.

So rather than be guided by fear I want to be guided by evidence.
At the moment looks like the bulk of snooping is done to satisfy political needs, hence snooping on EU, United Nations and so on.

D

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#848548 3-Jul-2013 09:15

dauckland:
Also, John Key said something recently which is very telling of governments' attitude to pushing these measures.

He said he doesn't want to have a NZ equivalent of Boston marathon on his hands.

Well, two things.

Despite all the internet surveillance there were no steps taken to stop Boston bombing. So to me it was useless.

QFT.

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#848560 3-Jul-2013 09:27

I heard last night that they had gone to urgency for the two new bills (GCSB & Interception) which is their usual trick to curtail public debate and simply push the legislation through. Scheduled hearings are being delayed and, I guess, if they do eventually happen will be irrelevant as the legislation will already be law.

The National government has made quite a habit of pushing through legislation with vocal public opposition by calling for urgency where none is really required. Seems very undemocratic.

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#848569 3-Jul-2013 09:44

Yes, I am beginning to think they have missed the 'Front' bit off the party name

SaltyNZ

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#848574 3-Jul-2013 09:53

I'd ask the obligatory 'Is that the New Zealand National Front, or the National Front of New Zealand?' joke, but I'm afraid it falls a bit flat when it's the real thing.

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#848756 3-Jul-2013 13:46

It seems Mr. Key is not making even an attempt to make it look like he believes in the process of democracy.

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DarthKermit

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#848843 3-Jul-2013 16:14

dauckland: Very interesting.
Not sure I am prepared to go to those lengths but nice to see someone else is thinking the same.

There is one thing that is very upsetting in governments introducing such broad snooping powers.
They, and by they I mean US and NZ with the new GCSB changes, are saying it is vital to protect our (as in people's) security. So looks like we need to be protected from ourselves.

Also, John Key said something recently which is very telling of governments' attitude to pushing these measures.
He said he doesn't want to have a NZ equivalent of Boston marathon on his hands.

Well, two things.
Despite all the internet surveillance there were no steps taken to stop Boston bombing. So to me it was useless.

Second, it's very easy to get people to submit their civil liberties because of fear. I have not seen any evidence, at least within NZ context, that internet snooping stopped a bad guy.
The only guy it stopped was Kim, and that was illegal.

So rather than be guided by fear I want to be guided by evidence.
At the moment looks like the bulk of snooping is done to satisfy political needs, hence snooping on EU, United Nations and so on.

D

Yup, that's a typical political speel. Appeal to the public's fear to push extra spying onto us.

Whatifthespacekeyhadneverbeeninvented?

bigal_nz

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#848850 3-Jul-2013 16:33

Is anyone here seriously worried about using Yahoo/Office365 etc because the NSA might have a back door? Do you think that your life is so interesting and that the NSA have nobody more interesting to do than spy on NZers?

While we are NSA bashing, what about all the other goverments? The Chinese are doing it, so are most developed nations.

The americans aren't any different in this respect.

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kesara

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#848853 3-Jul-2013 16:51

bigal_nz: Is anyone here seriously worried about using Yahoo/Office365 etc because the NSA might have a back door? Do you think that your life is so interesting and that the NSA have nobody more interesting to do than spy on NZers?

While we are NSA bashing, what about all the other goverments? The Chinese are doing it, so are most developed nations.

The americans aren't any different in this respect.

I don't think any government would be interested in a common man's life.
But what if government or some one with the access to all those information want to frame you?
Or How they control misuse of that information?

SaltyNZ

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#848873 3-Jul-2013 17:28

bigal_nz: Is anyone here seriously worried about using Yahoo/Office365 etc because the NSA might have a back door? Do you think that your life is so interesting and that the NSA have nobody more interesting to do than spy on NZers?

While we are NSA bashing, what about all the other goverments? The Chinese are doing it, so are most developed nations.

The americans aren't any different in this respect.

You're absolutely right. Let's give them all a free pass.

It's very hard to discuss this with someone who can't see why it's fundamentally wrong without breaking Mauricio's most important rule.

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bigal_nz

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#848878 3-Jul-2013 17:44

kesara:
bigal_nz: Is anyone here seriously worried about using Yahoo/Office365 etc because the NSA might have a back door? Do you think that your life is so interesting and that the NSA have nobody more interesting to do than spy on NZers?

While we are NSA bashing, what about all the other goverments? The Chinese are doing it, so are most developed nations.

The americans aren't any different in this respect.

I don't think any government would be interested in a common man's life.
But what if government or some one with the access to all those information want to frame you?
Or How they control misuse of that information?

And why would they be interested in framing a common man? Oh thats right your name is Jason Bourne...

SaltyNZ

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#848884 3-Jul-2013 18:05

bigal_nz:

And why would they be interested in framing a common man? Oh thats right your name is Jason Bourne...

Oh, all SORTS of reasons --

* Just on the off chance you're a terrorist
* Just on the off chance you're cheating on your tax
* Just on the off chance that you're *accidentally* cheating on your tax (ignorance is no defense, my friend)
* You have the same name as someone who someone thinks might be a terrorist
* The health minister decided cancer drugs were costing the state too much money, so he wants to find out who might already know they have gene XYZ so he can stop paying for them
* We elect a whackjob who decides that everyone who subscribes to Religion X is a terrorist, and you have an email confirming you will attend your friend's baby ceremony at the church of Religion X and therefore you are a terrorist
* Your evil ex-girlfriend works for the GCSB and is trying to blackmail you
* Some other random person who works for the GCSB wants to use the naked pictures of your ex-girlfriend to blackmail you
* Some random person who works for the GCSB goes completely bad and sells the whole database of ex-girlfriend pictures to a Russian mafia gang

This 'if you haven't done anything wrong, you have nothing to hide' argument is rubbish. Everyone - EVERYONE - does things that are neither illegal, immoral or even unusual, but they are NOBODY'S business but their own. Open-ended power to spy on everybody with no oversight, no recourse, no *knowledge* only leads to one place.

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