Has piracy REALLY been halved?

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#661536 25-Jul-2012 10:36

Gigs: Forgetting for a moment that this is Geekzone and if we want to get around it we will, non geeks don't go out of their way to get around blocked content by subscribing to a service that unblocks it - they just go and download it because that's easier.

dont agree, if you can download a torrent client and find a torrent, you can go to unblock-us.com sign up and change your DNS setting (unblock-us has a app you can download and install to do this for you). then you dont have to find the torrents/episodes just go to hulu.com or vudu.com etc.

and if you're on an ISP that doesnt support it, you can get a VPN just as easy (the big ones all have client apps you can install).

gzt

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#661608 25-Jul-2012 11:34

Kyanar: I can't see that you can say with a straight face that "the platforms don't suit the market" is even slightly a valid excuse. Pretty much every platform is covered by one or more solutions.

A available platform does not automatically connect with the market. High level marketing expertise is required to do that effectively. The correct resources have not been applied to the problem.

As you can see from my earlier posts - I am not trying in the least to validate or excuse the alternative at all.

Generously, I doubt you meant that as a personal attack but it comes across like that.

NonprayingMantis

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#661613 25-Jul-2012 11:40

Gigs:
NonprayingMantis:

you mean something like Spotify, Rdio, Mog, Grooveshark, Pandora?

No, those services don't exist. Oh wait, yes they do!

Whilst I have a lot of sympathy for people wanting to dload TV shows and movies not yet available in NZ, Music is widely available online and it is cheap to access.

And how many of those services are geo-locked and require you to be in the US?

Forgetting for a moment that this is Geekzone and if we want to get around it we will, non geeks don't go out of their way to get around blocked content by subscribing to a service that unblocks it - they just go and download it because that's easier.

Music ISN'T widely available here, when I wanted to hunt for some songs to buy, all the choices I had except for itunes told me "Oh wait, somewhere outside of America exists? Well blow me down, pity we won't sell music to you however."

Unfortunately Itunes got the money, but I don't like giving itunes any money for a start when other music providers had what I wanted - CHEAPER - and with the same content.

only Mog. all the others are available in NZ right now. (and iTunes of course, which I forgot to mention)

Kyanar

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#661618 25-Jul-2012 11:43

gzt:
A available platform does not automatically connect with the market. High level marketing expertise is required to do that effectively. The correct resources have not been applied to the problem.

As you can see from my earlier posts - I am not trying in the least to validate or excuse the alternative at all.

Generously, I doubt you meant that as a personal attack but it comes across like that.

I'm afraid it does read as if you're saying there's a problem with the platform, which is why I say I disagree with you. If you're saying we're just experiencing a breakdown in communication and the problem isn't the platform but rather the marketing, then certainly that's a view I could support - of all the available options, none of them actually do any marketing whatsoever. Spotify doesn't have any marketing or advertising. Rdio has no marketing or advertising. Vevo has no marketing or advertising. Hell, Pandora didn't even have a press release - they launched in NZ by adding an extra line to their Terms of Service!

chriswiggins

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#661774 25-Jul-2012 14:48

What people dont remember is using a VPN to get around geo locking is actually piracy in itself anyway. Its less illegal in the fact you're still paying for the content but it's still illegal.

Personally I get everything from something that must not be named. Very easy to maintain when it's all setup nicely. I'd be paying for content if it automatically downloaded and imported into my library. But I can't do that with the majority of the shows I watch so they have to be obtained another way.

My 2c.

Gigs

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#661778 25-Jul-2012 15:02

NonprayingMantis:

only Mog. all the others are available in NZ right now. (and iTunes of course, which I forgot to mention)

Cheers 'Mantis, I'd stopped using Pandora back when it became blocked to outside the US and hadn't checked back on it.

Time to really abuse the connection at home now :D

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Kiwipixter

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#661783 25-Jul-2012 15:09

chrisjunkie: What people dont remember is using a VPN to get around geo locking is actually piracy in itself anyway. Its less illegal in the fact you're still paying for the content but it's still illegal.

So let me put this in another way. Before the internet, if fly over the US and bought a ticket to a theatre where the content is shown, but not in NZ, is that piracy? Or if i bought VHS/Tapes/CDs/DVDs contents released overseas but not in NZ for personal consumption, was that piracy?

chriswiggins

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#661787 25-Jul-2012 15:15

Kiwipixter:
chrisjunkie: What people dont remember is using a VPN to get around geo locking is actually piracy in itself anyway. Its less illegal in the fact you're still paying for the content but it's still illegal.

So let me put this in another way. Before the internet, if fly over the US and bought a ticket to a theatre where the content is shown, but not in NZ, is that piracy? Or if i bought VHS/Tapes/CDs/DVDs contents released overseas but not in NZ for personal consumption, was that piracy?

No it wasn't. I take what I said back. My point was to portray that its still illegal to use a VPN to bypass the geo lock as it voids the terms and conditions.

I'm all for using Netflix etc and I actually do use a way to get around the whole geo blocking but I was just aiming to point it out.

rphenix

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#661992 25-Jul-2012 19:43

PaulBrislen: The answer to piracy isn't to criminalise customers but instead to offer services that make it worth their while to pay for.

Make it easier for people to give you money! Amazing how few companies realise this.

YUP. Would someone please tell ebook publishers? Geographical restrictions drive me up the bloody wall. More than a few times I went out and purchased the paper book instead as I didnt have a spare 4 hours just to buy the ebook.

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#662158 26-Jul-2012 07:32

chrisjunkie:
Kiwipixter:
chrisjunkie: What people dont remember is using a VPN to get around geo locking is actually piracy in itself anyway. Its less illegal in the fact you're still paying for the content but it's still illegal.

So let me put this in another way. ?Before the internet, if fly over the US and bought a ticket to a theatre where the content is shown, but not in NZ, is that piracy? ?Or if i bought VHS/Tapes/CDs/DVDs contents released overseas but not in NZ for personal consumption, was that piracy?

No it wasn't. I take what I said back. My point was to portray that its still illegal to use a VPN to bypass the geo lock as it voids the terms and conditions.

I'm all for using Netflix etc and I actually do use a way to get around the whole geo blocking but I was just aiming to point it out.

I take issue with your wording of your statement. It is not illegal to circumvent geo-restrictions but simply breach of contract.

This would open you up to the other party being able to terminate the contract and in extreme cases the possibility of a civil suit but you have no broken any laws or statutes. Not in the same way as when you infringe copyright, for example.

NonprayingMantis

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#662232 26-Jul-2012 10:53

If you read the submissions ( http://www.med.govt.nz/business/intellectual-property/copyright/illegal-peer-to-peer-file-sharing/submissions-on-fee-review-discussion )

it is very clear that only RIANZ (responsible for music) has subsmitted any notices at all, and even then these have been few and frar between

In other words, if you are downloading music there is a small chance of getting even a first notice, but if you want to download movies, TV shows, pro, software, games etc then there is no chance of recieving a notice because the rights holders for thewse types of content are not bothering to enforce the law they lobbied so hard for.

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Kiwipixter

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#662267 26-Jul-2012 11:32

NonprayingMantis: If you read the submissions ( http://www.med.govt.nz/business/intellectual-property/copyright/illegal-peer-to-peer-file-sharing/submissions-on-fee-review-discussion )

it is very clear that only RIANZ (responsible for music) has subsmitted any notices at all, and even then these have been few and frar between

In other words, if you are downloading music there is a small chance of getting even a first notice, but if you want to download movies, TV shows, pro, software, games etc then there is no chance of recieving a notice because the rights holders for thewse types of content are not bothering to enforce the law they lobbied so hard for.

Haven't read the submissions but its also very clear that RIANZ's notices are not for local content breaches, i.e. Lady Gaga, Rhianna etc... So where is the evidence of their argument of the Skynet law will protect local artists?

Athlonite

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#662270 26-Jul-2012 11:35

I believe you can make statistics show anything you want but this doesn't necessarily mean they are correct

statistically it's easy to push the proverbial uphill if you use an 40% bigger stick

so personally until the likes of hulu and netflix open shop in NZ and charge me in NZ dollars (and don't gouge my wallet) I'll continue right on downloading the TV episodes I like for music I use the free music archive .org

NonprayingMantis

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#662275 26-Jul-2012 11:40

Kiwipixter:
NonprayingMantis: If you read the submissions ( http://www.med.govt.nz/business/intellectual-property/copyright/illegal-peer-to-peer-file-sharing/submissions-on-fee-review-discussion )

it is very clear that only RIANZ (responsible for music) has subsmitted any notices at all, and even then these have been few and frar between

In other words, if you are downloading music there is a small chance of getting even a first notice, but if you want to download movies, TV shows, pro, software, games etc then there is no chance of recieving a notice because the rights holders for thewse types of content are not bothering to enforce the law they lobbied so hard for.

Haven't read the submissions but its also very clear that RIANZ's notices are not for local content breaches, i.e. Lady Gaga, Rhianna etc... So where is the evidence of their argument of the Skynet law will protect local artists?

AFAIK RIANZ don't represent many local artists

Athlonite

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#662279 26-Jul-2012 11:48

RIANZ is usually the first stop for overseas interests more so than local talent

you download .mp3---RIAA snaps you----they contact RIANZ----who send letter to your ISP----who sends you an notice----which you totally disregard and throw in the rubish

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