Piracy Debate (from australia)

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NonprayingMantis

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#111735 13-Nov-2012 15:27

pretty interesting piracy debate from australia.

"Piracy is a major issue for the Australian screen content industry. The proposition "All content should be made available to everyone everywhere immediately" at the Chauvel Cinema in November 2012. Hosted by Metro Screen.

Moderator - Carolyn Dalton, Executive Director of Policy Australia
Guest presenter - Fiona Cameron, Chief Operating Officer, Screen Australia

Speakers include a broad range of expert opinions:
- Marc Fennell - Film Critic and host of Radio National technology program 'Download This Show'
- Lori Flekser -- Executive Director, Intellectual Property Awareness Foundation
- Adrianne Pecotic -- CEO, Independent Cinema Association of Australia
- Tim Parsons -- COO, Quickflix
- Rodney Serkowski -- Founder, Pirate Party Australia

Metro Screen CEO - Christina Alvarez
Marketing Manager - Tiani Chillemi
Event Coordinator - Craig Boreham
Titles Design - Damien Dunstan
Camera Operator - Pablo Zubieta

Metro Screen 2012"

freitasm

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#716480 13-Nov-2012 15:28

Is that it? No link to results, comments, etc?

NonprayingMantis

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#716481 13-Nov-2012 15:29

sorry tried to put vid in using [youtube] code but didnt work

freitasm

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#716484 13-Nov-2012 15:32

Fixed for you. It's [ youtube ]videocodegoeshere[ /youtube] (without the spaces)

Do not paste the URL. It's the video code only (the parameter after v= in the video URL)

NonprayingMantis

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#716514 13-Nov-2012 16:04

Ok, now I have finished watching it (It?s an hour long!) a few comments:

Interesting debate and I can see the argument from both sides. Stats presented at the start were interesting.
I thought the first mainspeaker (the author guy) was pretty good and obviously verypassionate, although his understanding of the film/music industry is overly simplistic asother speakers pointed out.

The second speaker (intellectual property awareness person) wasn?t that great. generally the same old arguments about piracy is stealing etc

The woman with dark hair from independent cinema made some much better points about how the industry needs to change, and also how difficult it will be to change.

The Quickflix guy (CIO) was a good speaker (and a rocket scientist apparently!) so seems like he has got big plans for Quickflix,although with the usual limitations about how they can only get what the studios will allow them to get (hence no premium HBO in Aussie, and no HBO at all here)

NZtechfreak

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#716549 13-Nov-2012 16:37

Yawn. Content providers are dinosaurs with a crappy business model they can't get past. Their arguments are tired, and it is THEM, not pirates, taking money away from them.

Was interested to see a recent study (a fairly large multi-national one) that found people who pirated music actually spent 30% more on music than people who didn't pirate music. Bet they don't discuss that in that video?

I wonder, do they continue to push the fallacy that everything that is pirated is a lost sale in this video?

(will try and bring myself to watch some of it later)

At least some in the video seem like they are aware that their industry is the actual problem here.

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#716868 14-Nov-2012 09:55

I was impressed to see this. I can't imagine groups from the United States like the MPAA or RIAA sitting down for a debate like this.

An overarching theme I picked up was a lack of awareness about how the world really is by the content industry - which is why this debate is sorely needed globally. While the content industry said they understood the positions of the other they never managed to convey that understanding in their arguments.

The traditional content industry as represented by their respective speakers seem to fail to understand that people want to watch what they see or hear about online as soon or at the same time as they hear about it. The idea that a show can be spoiled by a badly placed tweet or news article is real and for those willing to pay money to ensure that their favourite show isn't spoiled by that irritating cousin from the USA via Facebook, the option does need to exist for them to legally stream or download the show as soon as possible.

The fact that a distribution network already exists with the ability to ship them a copy of their favourite show within a few minutes of it airing in the US or UK in quality equal to what they see on their television is the only evidence they need to desire such a service. It already exists, all it needs is someone to put up their hand and take money for it.

The arguments about whether they can make money by providing this service have already been answered for them. Do it, people want to and will pay for a fast and easy to use service. iTunes is the big example for this. If we could download shows that air in the USA when they become available in the iTunes store in the USA, I think NZ would halt almost all copyright infringement overnight. The ability to stream or download a high quality show with no worrying about the speed of a torrent or all the other problems that copyright infringement raises would do more for the content industry than lobbying for legislation ever could.

The arguments like "Well, why can't you just go see it at the cinema?" just make me sad to still be hearing. The digital revolution has made everything more convenient and more importantly able to occur on your schedule. The idea that you might miss an episode of my favourite television show because I was out when it aired at 8:30pm on a Friday is foreign to almost anyone under the age of twenty five. The same goes for the cinema, there will always be a market for the cinema lover. Having said that, there are a large number of people who will always want to be able to see a film in the comfort of their home and on their own schedule. If the industry refuses to make this available to their customers then of course they will run into copyright infringement problems.

If I can ship a Blu-ray disc from the US Amazon store for x film before it has a cinema date in New Zealand then we have a massive problem with distribution regardless of what the content industry says.

I was saddened to still hear arguments made with regard to the job losses within the content industry as well. The point regarding false statistics was hammered home quite well I thought. I am glad that is something they discussed. None of the reports from the industry that the media copy-pastes seem to have any sources or way to verify the wild claims they make. I am glad to see that more people will begin to understand that the numbers are often extrapolated from garbage.

I was also glad that is was pointed out that video rental stores were kept open by late fees as part of their business model. I knew this to be the case and never felt sorry for them as they slowly went out of business.

I disagreed with the apparent concern we as consumers are supposed to have for the viability of the content industry. Something they make abundantly clear to us is that they are a business; why then, should we care whether they are profitable? That is something for their accountants and CEOs to sort out. I don't see 2degrees moaning that it isn't profitable. They shuffle their plans, make plans they think will attract me to spend more (the shift from a $10 plan to a $19 plan was a good idea) and generally do the work to ensure I desire their service. If six out of ten films are making no money then how can you truly call yourselves a business? No other business can make a profit on 40% of their product and expect to last long.

If their business is based on making n films and selling them to content distributors for a fixed price (whether they are good or not) then surely you need to change that model or go out of business. Blaming the market for your performance is not accepted in any other industry. Why the content industry?

At the end of the day it is not the artists who are suffering because of copyright infringement, content creators will create no matter the environment. Just take a look at what Aziz Ansari, Louis C. K. & NiN have done. They bypassed the traditional media industry and sold directly to their customers. They have been a resounding success.

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#716876 14-Nov-2012 10:02

1080p: (Well thought out reasonable response)

+1 million!

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rvangelder

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#716900 14-Nov-2012 10:44

In New Zealand, if a series starts, it plays each week without fail, without any skipped weeks.
In America, a series will start, and depending on whatever other event is happening it might not play that week.

I'm starting to wonder if that's as large a reason that series don't play simultaneously across the world.

Take "Homeland" for example, which is playing in America at the same time as New Zealand because HBO release each week reliably.

Thoughts?

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#716955 14-Nov-2012 11:30

rvangelder: In New Zealand, if a series starts,

Well, that's a big 'if' for one thing.

I was pleased to see that Prime wised up and played this series of Doctor Who only about a week behind the US/UK instead of a couple of months.

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khull

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#716960 14-Nov-2012 11:34

The most insulting thing having to witness is the 'piracy is a crime' and 'you wouldn't steal a car' videos in the cinemas and on DVDs. I just paid for the content legitimately in support only to be reminded of what others might be doing?

NonprayingMantis

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#716963 14-Nov-2012 11:37

SaltyNZ:
rvangelder: In New Zealand, if a series starts,

Well, that's a big 'if' for one thing.

I was pleased to see that Prime wised up and played this series of Doctor Who only about a week behind the US/UK instead of a couple of months.

That’s somewhat of a double edged sword though.

For HBO shows that are well established then it should be possible to broadcast in NZ soon after USA, but for basaic cable shows where the schedules get messed up it’s a lot harder as mentioned above.

But for shows that are not so well established there simply isn’t enough bandwidth on sky/freeview to bring everything over and show it at the appropriate time, so networks here need to pick and choose what they bring over and it is pretty risky to pick up a series before it has launched since it might be a flop. By waiting a wee while they can see what will or will not be popular and so only bring over the better stuff. There is a huge amount of dross in the USA that thankfully we never see because of this.

Of course with the internet, FTTN and UFB the available bandwidth to show different things is a lot higher, so ondemand services with large catelogues of stuff will be a lot more viable.

SaltyNZ

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#717001 14-Nov-2012 12:25

NonprayingMantis:

Of course with the internet, FTTN and UFB the available bandwidth to show different things is a lot higher, so ondemand services with large catelogues of stuff will be a lot more viable.

Which is the point, really. You're right about the limited bandwidth on broadcast channels - but then again, Netflix & Hulu are where it's really at, not Sky. I only have ADSL 1 (and am unlikely to ever get anything faster at my just-rural address) but even I can watch 2 Netflix streams simultaneously*.

And I don't feel the least bit guilty about using Unblock-US to get to them. Money is paid, conscience is clear.

*Obviously I don't watch two at a time, but I can watch one while my watches something else. :-P

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old3eyes

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#717010 14-Nov-2012 12:42

rvangelder: In New Zealand, if a series starts, it plays each week without fail, without any skipped weeks.

Only to be canceled or shifted to the death watch hour after a few weeks.. Happens all the time on TVNZ and MW.

Regards,

Old3eyes

sen8or

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#717260 14-Nov-2012 17:38

The finanical results from Quickflix Australia for the past four years would tend to indicate that profitability of legal online content delivery is something that is at this stage out of reach for this part of the world. Quickflix are losing in excess of $1mio aussie per month currently and have yet to make a single $1 profit in the four years of trading (their financial results are available on their website if you wish to verify).

Their subscriber numbers are increasing, with currently 120,000 subscribers, but thats still only what, .5% or thereabouts of the current aussie population (circa 25mio?). Sure, that shows that there is tremendous growth potential for them which is I guess why the shareholders (Telstra?) continue to pump in millions of dollars to keep it going as the hope that it will one day make them a return, but wow, how deep the pockets must be so far.

Netflix in the US I guess is proof that a combination of packaged media (by post) and digital content delivery can co-exist, but the US has the advantage of sheer size of population and density of that popilation so certain economies of scale definitely come into account. Aus doesnt have that and NZ definitely doesnt.

Quickflix NZ must be hoping for better penetration than Aus, .5% after 4 years would give them what, 30,000 subscribers? If aussie cant turn a profit with 120,000, how will NZ do it with 1/4 of that?

mattwnz

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#717273 14-Nov-2012 17:52

NZtechfreak: Yawn. Content providers are dinosaurs with a crappy business model they can't get past. Their arguments are tired, and it is THEM, not pirates, taking money away from them.

Was interested to see a recent study (a fairly large multi-national one) that found people who pirated music actually spent 30% more on music than people who didn't pirate music. Bet they don't discuss that in that video?

I wonder, do they continue to push the fallacy that everything that is pirated is a lost sale in this video?

(will try and bring myself to watch some of it later)

At least some in the video seem like they are aware that their industry is the actual problem here.

This sort of thing has always occurred throughout history, it is all about protecting older business models. You had the same thing when motor vehicles came in and started replacing horse and carts.