This is why you don't give the government powers to spy

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SaltyNZ

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Topic # 130867 1-Oct-2013 07:44

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Obviously it's too late now (at least until election time), but here's another illustration of why you don't give the government power to spy on you.

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Reply # 905522 1-Oct-2013 09:04

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The article seems to imply that the individuals mentioned overstepped their authorities. They were identified, punished (or resigned) within the mandates of the organisation(s) overseeing them.

Nowhere does it state that the government sanctioned/condoned or turned a blind eye to the events listed.

Unsure why you are saying that the government should not have these powers based on this article.

Just my 2 cents...

BinaryLimited

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Reply # 905524 1-Oct-2013 09:11

HotDogBreath: The article seems to imply that the individuals mentioned overstepped their authorities. They were identified, punished (or resigned) within the mandates of the organisation(s) overseeing them. Nowhere does it state that the government sanctioned/condoned or turned a blind eye to the events listed. Unsure why you are saying that the government should not have these powers based on this article. Just my 2 cents...

Its a government organization. The problem with giving a company /organization power is...Who's watching them and who's watching the watchers and so on.....

" With great power comes great responsibility "

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joker97

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Reply # 905579 1-Oct-2013 10:14

from your argument (OP) -

you are being spied on anyway - either by the govt or by the USA or by google or by some random ...

whether you like it or not! whether spying is legal or not!

joker97

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Reply # 905581 1-Oct-2013 10:14

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forgot to add - the chinese :D

SaltyNZ

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Reply # 905587 1-Oct-2013 10:23

HotDogBreath: The article seems to imply that the individuals mentioned overstepped their authorities. They were identified, punished (or resigned) within the mandates of the organisation(s) overseeing them.
Nowhere does it state that the government sanctioned/condoned or turned a blind eye to the events listed.
Unsure why you are saying that the government should not have these powers based on this article.
Just my 2 cents...

Because although some of the offenders were punished (and arguably not very harshly at that) it does not undo the emotional trauma that such a violation inflicts on its victims. And if the power wasn't there in the first place, there would never have been any offending at all.

And finally, if this is the sort of person that the vaunted NSA hires, what hope have you got here in NZ with our minuscule resources?

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SaltyNZ

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Reply # 905590 1-Oct-2013 10:25

joker97: from your argument (OP) -

you are being spied on anyway - either by the govt or by the USA or by google or by some random ...

whether you like it or not! whether spying is legal or not!

People rob houses too whether we like it or not. Does that mean it is a good idea to make it legal? If you've every been robbed: remember how you felt when you discovered it. Scared, angry. Did you stop feeling like that when the thieves were caught?

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MikeB4

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Reply # 905617 1-Oct-2013 11:50

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This could be done by anyone irrespective of any powers granted the Government.

Mike
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SaltyNZ

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Reply # 905620 1-Oct-2013 11:58

KiwiNZ: This could be done by anyone irrespective of any powers granted the Government.

But it's a lot easier and more tempting when you have the tools handed to you as part of your job.

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geekiegeek

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Reply # 905627 1-Oct-2013 12:08

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SaltyNZ:
KiwiNZ: This could be done by anyone irrespective of any powers granted the Government.

But it's a lot easier and more tempting when you have the tools handed to you as part of your job.

And that's why we have auditing systems to track when people abuse the powers of their job, i.e. doctors viewing data for famous people they are not treating. If we followed your logic then no government department should hold data on a person as someone who works there might look at it? what about your insurance company they have plenty on you as well.

When you live your life on Twitter and Facebook, and are only friends with like minded people on Twitter and Facebook, you are not living in the real world. You are living in a narcissistic echo chamber.

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throbb

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Reply # 905633 1-Oct-2013 12:14

geekiegeek:
SaltyNZ:
KiwiNZ: This could be done by anyone irrespective of any powers granted the Government.

But it's a lot easier and more tempting when you have the tools handed to you as part of your job.

And that's why we have auditing systems to track when people abuse the powers of their job, i.e. doctors viewing data for famous people they are not treating. If we followed your logic then no government department should hold data on a person as someone who works there might look at it? what about your insurance company they have plenty on you as well.

Dont forget the Police

sittingduckz

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Reply # 905652 1-Oct-2013 12:36

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If someone is sad enough that they want to follow my every move then good luck to them... prepare for serious boredom!! :)

deadlyllama

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Reply # 905747 1-Oct-2013 14:57

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geekiegeek:
SaltyNZ:
KiwiNZ: This could be done by anyone irrespective of any powers granted the Government.

But it's a lot easier and more tempting when you have the tools handed to you as part of your job.

And that's why we have auditing systems to track when people abuse the powers of their job, i.e. doctors viewing data for famous people they are not treating. If we followed your logic then no government department should hold data on a person as someone who works there might look at it? what about your insurance company they have plenty on you as well.

When an agency such as the NSA appears to have an internal culture where something like spying on your ex is so common that it has its own acronym, then this is a problem. Safeguards are necessary, but if you have to use them often, then there's something going wrong.

webwat

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Reply # 908503 5-Oct-2013 16:06

If there are people around that actually need to be spied on, you probably won't hear the government telling everybody much about it. There are real terrorists in the world, and a few governments who's local agents probably also need to be monitored. GCSB has oversight from a parliamentary committee as well as an independant commissioner that has to issue warrants. If this is not sufficient then lets hear what sort of oversight is appropriate.

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SaltyNZ

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Reply # 908517 5-Oct-2013 16:50

webwat: If there are people around that actually need to be spied on, you probably won't hear the government telling everybody much about it. There are real terrorists in the world, and a few governments who's local agents probably also need to be monitored. GCSB has oversight from a parliamentary committee as well as an independant commissioner that has to issue warrants. If this is not sufficient then lets hear what sort of oversight is appropriate.

Well, the NSA would like you to think it has plenty of oversight, too. It didn't stop any of the abuses in the quoted article. You're missing the point: if the technical ability exists for a power to be abused, it will be. Therefore, you don't give any powers to the government when there's any other way.

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jeffnz

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Reply # 908522 5-Oct-2013 17:06

so what other way is there then

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